Confirmed: DW sold to Roland

[1988fxlr]

I didn't have an issue when I catalog ordered my Ludwigs in 2001, of course it helped that I bought them from the Pro Drum shop in Hollywood, probably the west coast's most renown Ludwig dealer!

View attachment 582720

Once I found a dealer (O Di Bella Music) It was smooth sailing, but none of the chain or larger local music stores at the time dealt with Ludwig and none of the big catalog sellers (Cascio and whats the other one that was big pre sweetwater) allowed custom orders

 

[JohnnyVibesAZ]

After watching the video of Lombardi receiving ownership of Slingerland, he was like a kid on Christmas morning. My theory is that since he’s receiving a substantial payout from the sale of his life’s work we will see him step away from DW but I don’t think he’s done yet. As elated as he is over Slingerland I see him definitely putting some effort into its resurrection. Similar to having a classic car in the garage just waiting for restoration “one of these days after I retire”.

I was hoping that Chicago Drum Co. would end up with Slingerland. It's where their heart is. Yes, I know they wouldn't mass produce the drums; only on a custom-built basis, but it would still keep the brand alive. As everybody is saying here, I don't know if there's enough interest to really crank them out, these days.

 

[audiochurch]

wow. i am away from this forum for a bit, and this happens?!!!! and the Queen died?!!!! omg. crazy week

 

[DrummBumm89]

And new Ludwigs go for 2/3 to 3/4 what new DW go for

If all you are doing is comparing Ancient Rosewood from the Black Sea in 24k Gold in an Exotic Lacquer to a Red Sparkle Classic Maple that's not a fair comparison.

A Classic Maple isn't far off from a Performance Series kit, and without digging into a price list I'd bet they are closer then you think. Performance is likely a closer Apples to Apples comparison over Collectors to a Classic Maple. I have also never seen a new Performance Wrap come in bubbling or hazy/ with swirl marks. I cannot say the same about Ludwig.

Sonor is more expensive, as can Gretsch & Tama versus DW at times. The "DW overpriced" thing is hoopla that is said from people that haven't looked at a price list in 10 years.

The bigger point being I don't think many seeing the Lombardi's rehashing Slingerland at a price that is comparable then the used market, as you can grab a used kit under a grand relatively easy. "Most" of the time, the Ludwig and Gretsch counterparts are going for quite a bit more on the used market.

If you priced New Slingerland to New Gretsch, you'd have the same issue that Rogers is having IMO.

 

[1988fxlr]

If all you are doing is comparing Ancient Rosewood from the Black Sea in 24k Gold in an Exotic Lacquer to a Red Sparkle Classic Maple that's not a fair comparison.

A Classic Maple isn't far off from a Performance Series kit, and without digging into a price list I'd bet they are closer then you think. Performance is likely a closer Apples to Apples comparison over Collectors to a Classic Maple. I have also never seen a new Performance Wrap come in bubbling or hazy/ with swirl marks. I cannot say the same about Ludwig.

Sonor is more expensive, as can Gretsch & Tama versus DW at times. The "DW overpriced" thing is hoopla that is said from people that haven't looked at a price list in 10 years.

The bigger point being I don't think many seeing the Lombardi's rehashing Slingerland at a price that is comparable then the used market, as you can grab a used kit under a grand relatively easy. "Most" of the time, the Ludwig and Gretsch counterparts are going for quite a bit more on the used market.

If you priced New Slingerland to New Gretsch, you'd have the same issue that Rogers is having IMO.

I compared classic maples, legacy mahogany and collectors all in pearl wraps 12/14/20. I don’t really have a dog in this fight. DW cost what they cost, which happens to be more than Ludwig. I like their pedals never wanted their drums although I’m aware they are very nicely built. Just discussing the financial viability of selling new Slingerland drums.

 

[Pat A Flafla]

But we don’t talk about religion, so…? Lol

I like vintage drums but I’ve never been vintage-only.

I've bought several cymbals and snares new, but I'm usually happy as a clam to let someone else eat the depreciation first.

 

[DrummBumm89]

I compared classic maples, legacy mahogany and collectors all in pearl wraps 12/14/20. I don’t really have a dog in this fight. DW cost what they cost, which happens to be more than Ludwig. I like their pedals never wanted their drums although I’m aware they are very nicely built. Just discussing the financial viability of selling new Slingerland drums.

Fair enough. Performance is more a fair comparison IMO to Classic Maple, which at a glance seem to be cheaper.

Legacy Mahogany to Collectors is a fair comparison, didn't find a direct match but wouldn't think it's more then a few hundred in difference.

 

[bpaluzzi]

Fair enough. Performance is more a fair comparison IMO to Classic Maple, which at a glance seem to be cheaper.

Legacy Mahogany to Collectors is a fair comparison, didn't find a direct match but wouldn't think it's more then a few hundred in difference.

No. Classic Maple is the correct comparison to Collector's Series.

DW is just significantly more expensive.

Performance Series is a Taiwan-made series, and doesn't compare to the Classic Maple. (Edit: performance series is made in the US)

Legacy Mahogany is comparable to Collector's Series Mahogany, which is even more insanely priced.

 

[Mayan]

My guess is that us Slingerland fans will keep loving vintage drums we find on Craigslist and Reverb and the like. I had some hope 3 years ago, but now I can’t imagine Roland deciding to revive the brand.

 

[GretschMan61]

Wasn't there a period in the early 90's where Gretsch had to stop using oil based lacquers/paint and switch to water based? Or they had to buy an extensive fume hood system to trap the vapours when they were painting the drums?
I heard this nearly put them out of business.
This is a story I heard 30 years ago so I might have it wrong!

That is correct , I remember that period as it was when Gretsch was only able to make wrapped kits . They had a tough time during this period .

 

[JimmyM]

I've bought several cymbals and snares new, but I'm usually happy as a clam to let someone else eat the depreciation first.

I’m proud to say I haven’t bought anything but heads and a couple tom mounts new when outfitting the two sets I bought over the last 9 months. I’m with you.

 

[actionjcl]

They were out there, I myself was playing a Gretsch that I had ordered in 1987 (had to jump thru a few hoops to accomplish that, buying Gretsch drums wasn't hard, but it wasn't quite easy either). Plenty of guys still had Gretsch drums or still wanted them. But the brand's profile was kind of on a low simmer. Like a fantastic restaurant that only a few people have heard about. I had young guys come up and ask me about my Gretsch drums all the time. I'd have to explain what they were because they had no clue. "Hmmm, never heard of them but they look nice".

Ludwig kind of fell into that same void for a while. They were never down to 6 employees or anything like that but there was about a 10-15 year stretch where they seemed to be out of fashion. Everybody you saw on TV was playing Yamaha, Pearl, Tama, or DW.

Anyway, times have changed for the better. It's nice to have options. Hopefully Slingerland will come back into the fray at some point as well.

Slingerland always lagged far behind Ludwig, bleeding money. Buddy Rich though had said that he preferred Slingerland to anything else he had ever used. If it wouldn’t have been for William F. Ludwig II, I doubt Ludwig would of been what it was and even what it is today. He wasn’t just a drum manufacturer, but a classy drummer and genuine friend of the drumming community at large.

 

[DrummBumm89]

No. Classic Maple is the correct comparison to Collector's Series.

DW is just significantly more expensive.

Performance Series is a Taiwan-made series, and doesn't compare to the Classic Maple.

No. Classic Maple is the correct comparison to Collector's Series.

DW is just significantly more expensive.

Performance Series is a Taiwan-made series, and doesn't compare to the Classic Maple.

Legacy Mahogany is comparable to Collector's Series Mahogany, which is even more insanely priced.

We're straying too far from the original topic to continue much more. I'll leave it at this.

Classic Maple is a straight 7 ply shell.
Performance is an 8 ply straight shell.
Performance is made in Oxnard.
Classic Maple is made in Monroe.
DW Design Series is overseas.

Both are limited finishes, limited sizes.

Collector's can make a wrap in whatever color, or switch to a lacquer. DW will also produce Collector's in any size (Ludwig will not) and don't come in standard Shell Packs like the (Fab, Mod , Pro Beats)

Good luck getting 1/2 of Ludwig's old finishes in Classic Maple.

We can argue semantics all day. Collector's is Full Custom-Shop, whether you choose to do so or not. Classic Maple is not.


Mahogany's

Ludwig Legacy Mahogany Pro Beat Shell Pack - Vintage Black Oyster

3-piece Mahogany/Poplar/Maple Shell Pack wtih 13" Tom, 16" Floor Tom, and 24" Bass Drum - Vintage Black Oyster

www.sweetwater.com

DW 3pc Collectors Maple Mahogany Drum Set-Vin. Marine Pearl

DW's flagship line, the Collector’s Series, are the original US-made custom drums. Drum Sizes- 8x12, 15x16, 14x22

www.soundpure.com

DW Collector's Series Maple/Mahogany Champagne Glass 3 pc drum shell pack 12/14/20 | Reverb

Brand new DW Collector's Series Maple Mahogany 3 pc kit. Great sizes for jazz or fusion. SO# 1277457. Finish is Champagne Glass with chrome hardware. Sizes are: 8x12 tom with S.T.M. 14x14 floor tom and a 14x20 bass drum. This kit just arrived from DW and is quite stunning! We did something a litt...

reverb.com

 

[Houndog]

Nothing wrong with convo meandering around is there ??

 

[K.O.]

Slingerland always lagged far behind Ludwig, bleeding money. Buddy Rich though had said that he preferred Slingerland to anything else he had ever used. If it wouldn’t have been for William F. Ludwig II, I doubt Ludwig would of been what it was and even what it is today. He wasn’t just a drum manufacturer, but a classy drummer and genuine friend of the drumming community at large.

I'm not sure you can say "always" in that first sentence. Slingerland was #1 by a mile all through the 30's, 40's and 50s. Thanks to Gene Krupa who was not only the best known drummer but also an avid Slingerland user (although Bill Ludwig Jr maintained that Gene had wanted to play Ludwigs but, when the Chicago sales office wouldn't give him any sort of a deal, Gene's father went to the yellow pages and found the Slingerland Banjo and Drum Company and gave them a call...the veracity of this particular story is somewhat questionable though, considering the source). After WFL morphed into the new Ludwig Drum Co. (1955) they started making inroads against Slingerland's lead, having Buddy Rich (who B2 landed by convincing Buddy that he'd always be #2 at Slingerland as long as Gene Krupa was there) and with guys like Joe Morello. Still, Slingerland remained #1 by a decent margin right up until a drummer named Ringo Starr popped up on the Ed Sullivan Show with his shiny new set of Ludwig drums. It could be argued that Ludwig is still riding on the coattails of that particular Sunday evening to this very day. Many other Ludwig drummers have buoyed the brand since but it was Ringo that opened those floodgates. Slingerland suddenly seemed old fashioned, your father's drum set perhaps. They still did a good business (it was later mismanagement that killed them off) but they lost their dominance in '64 and never gained it back.

I think there could be a market for new Slingerland branded drums built along the lines of the DW "Buddy Rich" tribute drum sets that DW did a small run of around 15-20 years ago. They had the scalloped lugs (some examples had the DW Turret lugs) and were very cool. If DW were to somehow revitalize the Slingerland brand then the prices of the vintage Slingerland drums would likely rise, which might make a reasonably priced line of new Slingerlands more palatable to folks who have a fondness for the name and look but maybe not so much with having to work around vintage hardware quirks. Then again maybe not...so many factors come into play it's hard to know what could happen.

But Slingerland was the KING for a long stretch.

 

[bpaluzzi]

We're straying too far from the original topic to continue much more. I'll leave it at this.

Classic Maple is a straight 7 ply shell.
Performance is an 8 ply straight shell.
Performance is made in Oxnard.
Classic Maple is made in Monroe.
DW Design Series is overseas.

Both are limited finishes, limited sizes.

Collector's can make a wrap in whatever color, or switch to a lacquer. DW will also produce Collector's in any size (Ludwig will not) and don't come in standard Shell Packs like the (Fab, Mod , Pro Beats)

Good luck getting 1/2 of Ludwig's old finishes in Classic Maple.

We can argue semantics all day. Collector's is Full Custom-Shop, whether you choose to do so or not. Classic Maple is not.


Mahogany's

Ludwig Legacy Mahogany Pro Beat Shell Pack - Vintage Black Oyster

3-piece Mahogany/Poplar/Maple Shell Pack wtih 13" Tom, 16" Floor Tom, and 24" Bass Drum - Vintage Black Oyster

www.sweetwater.com

DW 3pc Collectors Maple Mahogany Drum Set-Vin. Marine Pearl

DW's flagship line, the Collector’s Series, are the original US-made custom drums. Drum Sizes- 8x12, 15x16, 14x22

www.soundpure.com

DW Collector's Series Maple/Mahogany Champagne Glass 3 pc drum shell pack 12/14/20 | Reverb

Brand new DW Collector's Series Maple Mahogany 3 pc kit. Great sizes for jazz or fusion. SO# 1277457. Finish is Champagne Glass with chrome hardware. Sizes are: 8x12 tom with S.T.M. 14x14 floor tom and a 14x20 bass drum. This kit just arrived from DW and is quite stunning! We did something a litt...

reverb.com

So, you're right -- DW Performance is still made in US. There was some confusion around that recently, and it looks like I remembered it wrong.

Ludwig can (and does) make custom sizes.

They offer pre-packs or individual drums, the same way that DW does. Ludwig just chooses to name their configurations for historical reasons.

 

[JimmyM]

Nothing wrong with convo meandering around is there ??

Not to me, and it’s my thread so I get to make the rules

But back on topic, it sure is fun to see people’s reaction to this. The majority seem to have a negative reaction. Lots of prophets of doom. Funny stuff.

 

[1988fxlr]

We're straying too far from the original topic to continue much more. I'll leave it at this.

Classic Maple is a straight 7 ply shell.
Performance is an 8 ply straight shell.
Performance is made in Oxnard.
Classic Maple is made in Monroe.
DW Design Series is overseas.

Both are limited finishes, limited sizes.

Collector's can make a wrap in whatever color, or switch to a lacquer. DW will also produce Collector's in any size (Ludwig will not) and don't come in standard Shell Packs like the (Fab, Mod , Pro Beats)

Good luck getting 1/2 of Ludwig's old finishes in Classic Maple.

We can argue semantics all day. Collector's is Full Custom-Shop, whether you choose to do so or not. Classic Maple is not.


Mahogany's

Ludwig Legacy Mahogany Pro Beat Shell Pack - Vintage Black Oyster

3-piece Mahogany/Poplar/Maple Shell Pack wtih 13" Tom, 16" Floor Tom, and 24" Bass Drum - Vintage Black Oyster

www.sweetwater.com

DW 3pc Collectors Maple Mahogany Drum Set-Vin. Marine Pearl

DW's flagship line, the Collector’s Series, are the original US-made custom drums. Drum Sizes- 8x12, 15x16, 14x22

www.soundpure.com

DW Collector's Series Maple/Mahogany Champagne Glass 3 pc drum shell pack 12/14/20 | Reverb

Brand new DW Collector's Series Maple Mahogany 3 pc kit. Great sizes for jazz or fusion. SO# 1277457. Finish is Champagne Glass with chrome hardware. Sizes are: 8x12 tom with S.T.M. 14x14 floor tom and a 14x20 bass drum. This kit just arrived from DW and is quite stunning! We did something a litt...

reverb.com

37 finishes and 53 sizes is limited?
Dw performance has 8 finishes and 20 sizes. Classic Maples and Collectors were competitiors before there were Legacy’s or Performance series

 

[type85]

I'm not sure you can say "always" in that first sentence. Slingerland was #1 by a mile all through the 30's, 40's and 50s. Thanks to Gene Krupa who was not only the best known drummer but also an avid Slingerland user (although Bill Ludwig Jr maintained that Gene had wanted to play Ludwigs but, when the Chicago sales office wouldn't give him any sort of a deal, Gene's father went to the yellow pages and found the Slingerland Banjo and Drum Company and gave them a call...the veracity of this particular story is somewhat questionable though, considering the source). After WFL morphed into the new Ludwig Drum Co. (1955) they started making inroads against Slingerland's lead, having Buddy Rich (who B2 landed by convincing Buddy that he'd always be #2 at Slingerland as long as Gene Krupa was there) and with guys like Joe Morello. Still, Slingerland remained #1 by a decent margin right up until a drummer named Ringo Starr popped up on the Ed Sullivan Show with his shiny new set of Ludwig drums. It could be argued that Ludwig is still riding on the coattails of that particular Sunday evening to this very day. Many other Ludwig drummers have buoyed the brand since but it was Ringo that opened those floodgates. Slingerland suddenly seemed old fashioned, your father's drum set perhaps. They still did a good business (it was later mismanagement that killed them off) but they lost their dominance in '64 and never gained it back.

I think there could be a market for new Slingerland branded drums built along the lines of the DW "Buddy Rich" tribute drum sets that DW did a small run of around 15-20 years ago. They had the scalloped lugs (some examples had the DW Turret lugs) and were very cool. If DW were to somehow revitalize the Slingerland brand then the prices of the vintage Slingerland drums would likely rise, which might make a reasonably priced line of new Slingerlands more palatable to folks who have a fondness for the name and look but maybe not so much with having to work around vintage hardware quirks. Then again maybe not...so many factors come into play it's hard to know what could happen.

But Slingerland was the KING for a long stretch.

I gotta stray one more time....
I recently read Bill Jr's book and agree with everything you said!
Ringo changed things forever and Ludwig never looked back! Keep in mind Ringo's Ludwigs also created a huge demand for Ludwigs in England and even in Europe, when you look at all the English "dinosaur rock" bands from the 60's and 70's virtually ALL of them (Bill Ward the exception) Played Ludwig AND Paiste (thanks to Ivor Arbiter)!
They became the THE drums for rock but the sale in '81 (?) and the rise of the Japanese and thier super aggressive endorsement campaigns meant Ludwig lost the monopoly by the early/mid 80's. They still have the reputation as the drums for rock (so does Tama now), but not the market share. Yes, I'm a Ludwig fanboy and I'm glad they're still here and still making thier own shells.

 

[bpaluzzi]

37 finishes and 53 sizes is limited?
Dw performance has 8 finishes and 20 sizes. Classic Maples and Collectors were competitiors before there were Legacy’s or Performance series

Yup, and Ludwig will make sizes that aren't in that list, too.

I have 16x14, 18x12, and 22x12 Classic Oaks. None of those are listed sizes.