Cracks on Paiste Signature

AlexandrosK

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Hello,

I own a line of 5 crashes, hihat, ride, china, splash.
Bought in 2010. Signature series.

A crack started on both China and 12" crash and since then I haven't been using them so it doesn't get worse. Both cracks are on edges.

Is there a way to fix them or stop them from growing?

Thanks
Alex
 

DaveCollingwood

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I did a few repairs for a customer recently, this is the way I recommend dealing with cracks.



Lots of folk go for the drilling option where you drill a small hole at the end of the crack (keeping in mind that often the cracks extend further than you can see...), but I'm not really a believer in that method unless you're dealing with cracks around the mounting hole.
 

dtk

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I'll second Dave's recommendation...a crack is like a cancer...cut it out so it doesn't spread. in my own repairs my cutting is maybe more severe and less flowing then daves (I subscribe to the cookie monster fix...the cymbal looks like someone took a bite out of it).

I've used both Heather Stine and Ken at Midwest cymbal for modifications and they could help you...or you could buy a dremel and do it yourself (wear goggles)....but you might want to start w/something else...cheaper 1st.

Also...think about why they might have cracked...where the nuts too tight?

dtk
 

gezz

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The reason I don't play sigs... brittle and prone to cracks.. it's not a "relaxed" metal.. I can feel the tension under the stick especially on the rides.. they sound amazing but are not cymbals that will be around in 30 or 40 years like old As


Gerry
 

Black Label

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I have cracks in both my 18" full and 18" power crashes (Signatures). I have drilled them both (a small drill hole on either side of the crack as these are in the body of the cymbal and not on the edge) and the cracks have not spread. The drilling did dry the sound of the power crash out quite a bit but the full crash still sounds as good as ever. BTW, these two are the only crashes that I have ever cracked. There may be some merit in what Gezz is saying. But man do they sound good!
 

mgdrummer

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My experience is that it's a myth that Signatures crack more than other cymbals. It's pretty equal across the board from manufacturer to manufacturer. In the years that I was in MI retail there were many, many more Zildjians & Sabians replaced under warranty simply due to the fact that we sold more of them than we did Paiste. Numbers-wise it balanced out amongst the three brands.
 

zenstat

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mgdrummer said:
My experience is that it's a myth that Signatures crack more than other cymbals. It's pretty equal across the board from manufacturer to manufacturer. In the years that I was in MI retail there were many, many more Zildjians & Sabians replaced under warranty simply due to the fact that we sold more of them than we did Paiste. Numbers-wise it balanced out amongst the three brands.
I agree. There isn't any evidence on cracking rates which is in the public domain that I can find. Some manufacturers may have collected data by testing to failure, but that's not available to us. Most claims are based on anecdotal evidence (like: "I have one which cracked") and of little help in establishing actual rates. That requires proper scientific experimental design and analysis. In an effort to add a bit of evidence to the discussion I collected some info a year ago when this last came up in the context of evidence free claims of 602s cracking more than Avedis Zildjians:

So I had a quick look and today (23 Sep 2016) the stats on eBay sales are:

32 cracked Zildjians out of 2351 used Zildjians for sale. Cracking rate = 1.36%
1 cracked 602 out of 44 used 602s for sale. Cracking rate = 2.27%

Conclusions: there are a lot more used Zildjians for sale, not a lot are cracked for either 602s or Zildjians. A quick chi-squared test for a difference in proportions gives a result of no significant difference between the two cracking rates at the 95% confidence level.

I don't expect this to change anybody's opinion.
I've got similar info from a check on cracking rates of old Ks (K Zildjian Istanbul) and that reveals a greater rate for them (15-22%) although we didn't have very clear definitions of what sorts of cracks were were talking about. From 2014: http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=47061

The most interesting thing to me is that despite the apparently much higher rate of cracking in K Zildjian Istanbul cymbals, people only pick on Paiste as far as cracking goes. Since 2014 I've collected lots more data about pricing, but not really gone back to do more on cracking rates. Perhaps I'll have a crack at it some day. :happy11:
 

gezz

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Maybe here in the UK I have seen more Paiste than Zildjian.. Paiste DEF are more popular here.. I stand by what I say about that Alloy feeling brittle tho.. and it does..
 

Black Label

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gezz said:
Maybe here in the UK I have seen more Paiste than Zildjian.. Paiste DEF are more popular here.. I stand by what I say about that Alloy feeling brittle tho.. and it does..
I experienced that same feeling of brittleness with their discontinued Dimensions crashes - I had a 17" Medium Thin crash which sounded amazing but I was always nervous of breaking it because it felt so stiff - as opposed to the Giant Beats, 2002's and 602's.

But that being said, I've only ever owned 2 Zildjian crashes - a K Dark Thin which was nice and an 18" A Medium Thin crash which had the exact same brittle / stiff feel.

FWIW - the nicest "feeling" crash - buttery as all hell - that I've ever played was a Sabian HHX Evolution 18" - but it sounded a little splashy though.

Cheers
Erik
 

Buffalo_drummer

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This is the main reason I got away from Sigs. I started to crack a cymbal every 18 months. Some were replaced by Paiste and some weren't. The other reason was the price on the Sigs kept creeping up and up.
 

AlexandrosK

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Hey all,

Thanks for the information. Actually, my China (Paiste Sig as well) also cracked.
I will get the cymbals to a blacksmith friend of mine to check if what DaveCollingwood can be done.

Those are the cymbals. When i bought them i was thinking a bit diffirently. I now find them a bit "hard" sounding. Would use them for hard rock or metal, but i would like to get a second set of cymbals for anything else.

Alex

 


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