Crash/Rides Opinions?

JDA

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There two types (at least) of Crash Techniques too when Drummers on the internet discuss "Crash".

There's the Full On Hit... Just Hit. Crash. Edge on crash
and then there's the flat stick or side stick turn of the stick so flat shoulder of stick meets body of the cymbal and Activates it's full sound pallette

call one the Eye Of The Tiger Crash
the other the Nefertiti crash
 
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Rick

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There two types (at least) of Crash Techniques too when Drummers on the internet discuss "Crash".

There's the Full On Hit... Just Hit. Crash. Edge on crash
and then there's the flat stick or side stick turn of the stick so flat shoulder of stick meets body of the cymbal and Activates it's full sound pallette

call one the Eye Of The Tiger Crash
the other the Nefertiti crash
Exactly. And just to be clear... when I say a cymbal has a good "crash" sound, I'm referring to both.
 

JDA

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Exactly. And just to be clear... when I say a cymbal has a good "crash" sound, I'm referring to both.
that.... I don't think is possible. Or I have not come across.
I mean if you "Eye Of The Tiger" Crash an Old K 18".....it does not open up like an 18" Bosphorus Thin Crash shall.
Conversely where on an old K 18, there are many, there are really no "side stick Nefertiti" crash available- easily accessible- or of much (musical) consequence- on the Bosphorus 18" thin Crash.

I call the side stick crash a Harmonic like what you do with the pick on a guitar.
A full on - wallop crash is different.
A cymbal really leans, one way or the other

Plus you risk busting a Ride-centric cymbal if you wallop too hard.
Got to be careful you don't push it into the cymbal stand stem and cause remote fissures.

Whereas a Crash- Crash cymbal will release itself - surrender to the pressure- easier
but won't ride- sustain time play- well.
 
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Sequimite

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Do you mean profile/bow, or taper/thinner edge?
I can't say a lot about taper, not easy to see by the naked eye, but I know cymbals with very different profiles can be great crash/rides, low in the case of the Agean mentioned above, or higher in the case of As. Crashes aren't all high (or low) profile either.

Nobody has mentioned the A Avedis line yet :)
By "contour" I meant profile/bow.
I'm relating my personal experience and what I consider a good crash/ride based on a half century and hundreds of cymbals. There are many many cymbal types I haven't experienced and my own taste will not be shared by all.

I do think lots of rides sound good when slapping the shoulder, what is referred to as a side stick crash above. What I am referring to is a full edge crash.
 
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Rick

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that.... I don't think is possible. Or I have not come across.
I mean if you "Eye Of The Tiger" Crash an Old K 18".....it does not open up like an 18" Bosphorus Thin Crash shall.
Conversely where on an old K 18, there are many, there are really no "side stick Nefertiti" crash available- easily accessible- or of much (musical) consequence- on the Bosphorus 18" thin Crash.

I call the side stick crash a Harmonic like what you do with the pick on a guitar.
A full on - wallop crash is different.
A cymbal really leans, one way or the other

Plus you risk busting a Ride-centric cymbal if you wallop too hard.
Got to be careful you don't push it into the cymbal stand stem and cause remote fissures.

Whereas a Crash- Crash cymbal will release itself - surrender to the pressure- easier
but won't ride- sustain time play- well.
Yeah I might not have fully understood what you meant. My 19" Kerope definitely won't open up like a louder crash... hence the reason I didn't use it on my most recent gigs as described above. I guess all I'm saying is that it does have a really nice full-on crash sound AND it has a beautiful "side stick" crash (like you described). It's just that the full-on crash sound isn't very loud... but it still to my ear has all the other characteristics. It's surprising really. When I first got the cymbal, that was the first thing I was curious about... because, frankly, I didn't expect it to be that good.
 
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JDA

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I didn't expect it to be that good.
anytime Zildjian sets out- and that was an earnest set out- to "duplicate" the "old simbles" (ie the Old Ks)
-even tho they're not identical- it's gotta be good : )
 

Sequimite

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Here you are, both crashed full-edge and also ridden. One higher in profile (20" 60s A ca.2030g), one low (21" Turkish, weight unknown), you be the judge: https://soundcloud.com/seb234%2Fdrum-soundcheck-tuesday-baffles
You are correct, sir! They both sound great. As with most everything else in life I suppose there are lots of factors which inter-react in complex ways. I will keep my simplistic rule of thumb as it has served me well. As an aspiring radical empiricist I have and will always keep my ears open for contrary evidence.
 

heythere

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I have a 18" 50's Zildjian A cymbal that I use for a jazz ride. It has great definition but is not overpowering to the song. For me anyways it is harder to control a 20" or larger cymbal as a dual purpose crash/ride cymbal on songs with louder volume. I will use a 20" A for ride and a 18" A for the crash separately. It keeps the overtones from getting out of control. Just my opinion.
 

Mcjnic

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Quite a few of the cymbals I play fall into the crash/rides territory.

Paiste
22 Twenty Light Ride (2738g)
22 Giant Beat Multi-Functional (2415g)
20 Signature Prototype Crash (2103g)

Sabian
22 HHX Prototype Brilliant (2603g)
20 HHX Prototype Vault (1803g)
20 AAX X-Plosion Brilliant Crash (2064g)

Here's the Paiste 20 Signature Prototype Crash
It is a wonderful ride with a very sweet bell.
And the crash is phenomenal.





Here's the Sabian 22 HHX Prototype Brilliant
It sits nicely as a ride with a great bell.
And the crash is so sweet underneath.





And here's the Sabian 20 HHX Prototype
A nice light ride with a great bell.
And the crash is very present and warm.




Finally, here's the Sabian 20 AAX X-Plosion
It's heavy enough to give a good ride and great bell.
It has a really nice crash.


 

JDA

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you can do this with 20s all day long..


.......try it with 18s...
there's the roadblocks

20 is "accepted" as a ride cymbal hence shaving or whatevering one to crash ride is simple.


Try starting with an 18" Ride? there are far fewer..
 

drummingbulldog

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I had a 20" K CrashRide. It was awesome & I wish I still had it. It was a great crash/decent ride. It was great for crash riding. Also, my brother used to an A Zildjian 18" Crash Ride which was a beautiful cymbal.
 

varatrodder

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I had a heavier 18” K medium thin crash that was a great crash ride. It was a great crash, I could bash ride it, and it worked well as a ride in low volume situations.
My 19” A Zildjian medium thin was similar to the K, but brighter.

I have an 18” Istanbul K now, but I would buy another K medium thin in a heartbeat.
 

David M Scott

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I had a 20" K CrashRide. It was awesome & I wish I still had it. It was a great crash/decent ride. It was great for crash riding. Also, my brother used to an A Zildjian 18" Crash Ride which was a beautiful cymbal.
I was looking for a crash/ride with the Bos sound for Jazz without dropping $450 Canadian that they and the K sell for.
I heard the Sabian HXX Legacy 19in Dave Wechl signature and it was exactly what I was after for $377. I've hosted 4 outdoor Jazz and three Blues-R&B jams and man am I glad I went that way. It can be a subtle ride both with sticks and brushes, great for accents but can crash big time. It meshes great with my 20 AAX medium ride which has a nice ping so i'm a happy camper.
 
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19's are the best crash-rides that I have ever used, (but I like to call them ride-crashes!) I have a 19" 602 medium and a lightly heavier 19" Masters Dark Crash that are both fantastic!!!!

18's take a little more touch, and 16's even more so.

At a Paiste Day at Maxwell's a few years back, Nat T. and I spent most of the time playing every 19 that they had there. 602, Masters, 2002, Big Beat, Modern Essential, Dark Energy, even some Sigs. I liked them all, and loved a few.

There are more than a few great drummers that had "notable" 19's: Mel, Jimmy Cobb, AT... (feel free to add to the list.) Armand LOVED 19's too, that's where the "Beautiful Baby" came from.

MSG
 

james_c_marks

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The best Crash Rides on the Bandstand are the ones that seem to be just a pinch too heavy in the drum room.
 

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Crash / Rides ... I have a DREAM BLISS 18" crash/ride that I absolutely Love . It's one of my favorite cymbals. Unique sound, great wash. Rings out longer than some of my others. Reasonably priced / underrated cymbal brand.
 

David M Scott

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Crash / Rides ... I have a DREAM BLISS 18" crash/ride that I absolutely Love . It's one of my favorite cymbals. Unique sound, great wash. Rings out longer than some of my others. Reasonably priced / underrated cymbal brand.
I had a 20in Dream "Vintage" Bliss and while it did everything you stated it also had a big wash that would end up in a roar when really sticked. So I sold it. After I realized I should have gone with the "straight Bliss" series as they are really what I was after. I found it in the 19in Sabian, HXX Legacy Dave Wechl. Different strokes for different folks.
 

Cauldronics

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The next crash I get will probably be an updated (since 2008?) A or the Avedis A, and probably 19 or 20" crash/ride.

It's a matter of being willing to pay a bit more for the Avedis to get that next level of complexity and richness, or a more simple but good sound from a regular A for less money. Both sound really good to me.
 


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