Crisis in Music

Pounder

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Thanks for sharing. I found the q&a part revealing. Not sure I agree with the speaker overall, except in a few points, particularly that the internet has created a situation where the music companies are useless, and artists can create a situation where they deal directly with the listener. He didn't really approach live music performance, which is a twofold process that artists can make money 1) they sell tickets and 2) they generate interest in purchasing actual physical albums.
Although, He's right that the formats of the past are becoming archaic. Only vinyl is still valid, and more music stores sell a much larger proportion of vinyl than CDs than ever before.

He considers tech companies the enemy of the individual artist. I am a person who doesn't use Apple music that much, or Spotify, I prefer Youtube, but I will purchase vinyl from new artists who I enjoy hearing.

He covers the question of whether music is art or entertainment, and says "Art forces the listener to think." But he doesn't mention the fact that many music listeners do listen in order to stop thinking, or in order to escape, and the fact that the listener of Musical art must first choose to listen to the art. So it's questionable whether art forces the observer to think or if it is a choice made by the observer in the first place.

Also, he mentioned how some pop artists have gotten a clue and have utilized great musicians to perform their recordings, citing Kendrick Lamar using jazz players on his albums, and Lady Gaga teaming up with Tony Bennett. Thing is, pop artists have used talented jazz and other genre players since the inception of pop. That's nothing new.

As an academic lecture it was OK. Thanks for sharing.
 

Vistalite Black

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Let me sum it up for people: Jazz professor doesn't find a lot to like in modern music, except when rappers collaborate with jazzbos (which mostly creates bad jazz and crap rap).

That guy's an idiot. There's great music happening everywhere. All over the world. All of it is available instantly on your phone. There's never been more choice and it's never been cheaper to try any part of it you want to delve into.
 

Frank Godiva

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Whether you agree or not, one fact really stuck with me:

In the 1930s there were thousands of places to see live music. With the lack of live music venues today it is estimated that opportunities for musicians to play has been reduced by 90%. Most bands in the 30s had many players with little to no soloists are duos. Most folks in the US don't have access to regular live music.


To all of us that play live on a regular basis we carry the ten percent torch.

Keep playing live as often as you can; it's of a privilege for both you and the audience.
 

Rich K.

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Didn't watch the lecture yet...

But let's call a spade a spade. Music is no longer a big part of the culture nowadays. We all grew up spending lots of time listening to, watching and discussing music. Things are different now. There's lots of great music and more is available than ever before, essentially for free. But it's not part of our culture.
Kids in general don't care or listen to music. (yes, there's a few here and there and we gush when they love Led Zepplin, but for the most part, kids don't listen to music.) None listen to the radio. None download. Heck, kids today don't even watch television. Talk to any 9 year old and he'll tell you he watches other kids playing video games on youtube (on his tablet).
Radio is dying... nearly dead. Nobody listens to music on the radio much anymore.
Nobody buys cds or vinyl. Yes, there are now vinyl sales, but it's not the general public much... it's hobbyists. Compared to record sales in the 20th century into the '90s, it's virtually nothing.
Itunes is closing shop.

It's just different now. Musicians and music lovers will keep music alive, but it's not, and probably will never be the business it was.
Things change...
 

tommykat1

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Didn't watch the lecture yet...

But let's call a spade a spade. Music is no longer a big part of the culture nowadays. We all grew up spending lots of time listening to, watching and discussing music. Things are different now. There's lots of great music and more is available than ever before, essentially for free. But it's not part of our culture.
Kids in general don't care or listen to music. (yes, there's a few here and there and we gush when they love Led Zepplin, but for the most part, kids don't listen to music.) None listen to the radio. None download. Heck, kids today don't even watch television. Talk to any 9 year old and he'll tell you he watches other kids playing video games on youtube (on his tablet).
Radio is dying... nearly dead. Nobody listens to music on the radio much anymore.
Nobody buys cds or vinyl. Yes, there are now vinyl sales, but it's not the general public much... it's hobbyists. Compared to record sales in the 20th century into the '90s, it's virtually nothing.
Itunes is closing shop.

It's just different now. Musicians and music lovers will keep music alive, but it's not, and probably will never be the business it was.
Things change...
The worm turns. I think it will swing back.

Remember how we thought disco would ruin live music and rock 'n roll?

You can compare nine year old kids who don't like music to nine year old kids who think musical instruments are magic. That was me back in the 60s. Many of my friends couldn't have cared less about music. They wanted to play sports. A couple of my friends and I were absolutely glued to music of all types. So we formed a band, and the rest is history...
 

ARGuy

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Let me sum it up for people: Jazz professor doesn't find a lot to like in modern music, except when rappers collaborate with jazzbos (which mostly creates bad jazz and crap rap).

That guy's an idiot. There's great music happening everywhere. All over the world. All of it is available instantly on your phone. There's never been more choice and it's never been cheaper to try any part of it you want to delve into.
All you've done is shown that you didn't watch the video; or if you did, you watched it with a closed mind, because you aren't even close.
 

mtarrani

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Let me sum it up for people: Jazz professor doesn't find a lot to like in modern music, except when rappers collaborate with jazzbos (which mostly creates bad jazz and crap rap).

That guy's an idiot. There's great music happening everywhere. All over the world. All of it is available instantly on your phone. There's never been more choice and it's never been cheaper to try any part of it you want to delve into.
Really? An idiot? First, he is not a jazz professor, he is a jazz musician, composer and music historian. That last qualification, combined with his business background, give him a unique perspective and insights into the big picture that he laid out in the video. His business background, by the way, includes stints with two consulting firms (Boston Consulting Group and McKinsey & Company), as well working with various Silicone Valley venture capitalists. Oh, lest I forget, he has an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business in addition to other degrees that provide him with a lot of credibility. Something that your unsubstantiated remarks fail to give you.
 

rondrums51

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Ted Gioia is not an idiot. I have his book West Coast Jazz, the best and most informative source on that topic.
His message is important. The music business has been taken over by big corporations that have no interest in anything but the low common denominator. The effect is pervasive, right down to those of us who work locally.
Musical freedom and creativity are no longer commercially viable. Oh yeah, there are great creative musicians out there, but the majority of them are starving.
If you're a musician and you don't get in line with the drone mentality, you'd better get a day job.
 

michaelg

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What saddens me is the lack of experience young guys get playing,

I've been so lucky to have played with lots of musicians,, I've learned basically everything from them,,, particularly playing with older guys who were better than me and had the patience to take me under their wings.

The knowledge that passes down from playing with more experienced guys is being lost.
 

tommykat1

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There was some major legislation passed last year that was supposed to remedy the issues with streaming services, outdated ASCAP regulations and the monetary rights of song writers and performers. What's happened with that?
 

mtarrani

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There was some major legislation passed last year that was supposed to remedy the issues with streaming services, outdated ASCAP regulations and the monetary rights of song writers and performers. What's happened with that?
The video was posted in 2015, so if the legislation was passed in 2018 it would possibly have rendered some of what Gioia said moot.
 

tommykat1

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The video was posted in 2015, so if the legislation was passed in 2018 it would possibly have rendered some of what Gioia said moot.
Cool, Mike. I haven't heard anything about the fallout since then, but the legislation was supposed to be huge, and make it possible for composers/songwriters to make money off of their original compositions again. Sounded like it would turn ASCAP and BMI on their collective ear. And maybe that's why Apple has rethought the structure of iTunes in recent days.
 

tommykat1

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Another thought on the state of music today in regards to the youngsters who may or may not be involved in it, or listening to it:

There was that record executive from Decca (I think) who, upon listening to the Beatles and rejecting their demo, told Brian Epstein, "Guitar bands are dead."
 

jansara

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Gioia's right - even an Ella Fitzgerald wouldn't stand a chance in today's scene.

The industry gave up on real talent in favor of glitz, glamor and T&A decades ago when suits with MBA's and zero music background/knowledge took over the business and dumbed it down. Visuals are the rule. More often than not, behind an over- extravagant production hides a mediocre talent, or worse. People eat that up. It's what they've been taught.
 

Vistalite Black

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Didn't watch the lecture yet...

But let's call a spade a spade. Music is no longer a big part of the culture nowadays. We all grew up spending lots of time listening to, watching and discussing music. Things are different now. There's lots of great music and more is available than ever before, essentially for free. But it's not part of our culture.
Kids in general don't care or listen to music. (yes, there's a few here and there and we gush when they love Led Zepplin, but for the most part, kids don't listen to music.) None listen to the radio. None download. Heck, kids today don't even watch television. Talk to any 9 year old and he'll tell you he watches other kids playing video games on youtube (on his tablet).
Radio is dying... nearly dead. Nobody listens to music on the radio much anymore.
Nobody buys cds or vinyl. Yes, there are now vinyl sales, but it's not the general public much... it's hobbyists. Compared to record sales in the 20th century into the '90s, it's virtually nothing.
Itunes is closing shop.

It's just different now. Musicians and music lovers will keep music alive, but it's not, and probably will never be the business it was.
Things change...
Ted Gioia is not an idiot. I have his book West Coast Jazz, the best and most informative source on that topic.
His message is important. The music business has been taken over by big corporations that have no interest in anything but the low common denominator. The effect is pervasive, right down to those of us who work locally.
Musical freedom and creativity are no longer commercially viable. Oh yeah, there are great creative musicians out there, but the majority of them are starving.
If you're a musician and you don't get in line with the drone mentality, you'd better get a day job.
He’s not one of the founders of Stanford University’s jazz studies program? He better change his C.V. There are plenty of over-educated idiots out there. The ones with the least sense and the biggest mouths call themselves consultants.
 

drawtheline55

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This speaker maybe highly educated, but he is seriously mixed up.
Record companies care about one thing and one thing only......UNITS SOLD.
If a female jazz singer who weighed 300 pounds and did not look like a fashion model
came out with a record...called..."the fat lady sings" and it sold 10 million units.
The "Fat lady sings volume two" would soon be on its way.

This dude needs to grow up.
 


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