Crisis in Music

dcrigger

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Sorry, but that just isn't true. More music is listened to by more people now than at any time in history. The big difference now is that the profit generated by all that listening is going to a very few tech companies as they break the law every second.
Break the law??? How is that exactly????
 

dcrigger

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The problem; YouTube where content is both stolen and free.
sorry but at this time in 2019 - there is little to no content on YouTube that is stolen or free.

YouTube's current ContentID tools catch almost everything - and their manual tools let copyright holders catch most everything else. Once caught - which is virtually immediate (try it) - the owner of the music that some has posted without permission is then able to give their permission in three ways (this is all mostly automated with the major labels) - 1. Have the music removed from the video or the video pulled outright, 2. demonetize the video - meaning take the share of the advertising revenue that the video poster might have earned, 3. Let the video run as-is with permission (as a marketing, educational, or promotional tool).

As end user's we pay through watching ads.

There is nothing Stolen

There is nothing Free.

There used to be - but that was fixed many years ago. And that fix continues to be constantly tweaked.
 

dcrigger

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I'm not saying we're not living in challenging times as artists as changes in technology remakes the underlying structure of our industry in profound ways.

But conflating all of that with the predictable progression of ever-changing musical tastes does nothing to make the challenges more clear to understand or to deal.

Same with hyperbolic, inaccurate statements regarding the how these technical and legal structures actually work.

Anytime there's technological advance of any depth, there's going to be industries turned on their ears - sometimes for awhile, sometimes forever (chimney sweep business anyone? Ice Delivery??) Heck you think this is bad - just buckle up - we got automated trucks coming in 10-20 years. Which will mean moving 80% of those drive anything for a living into other work? What other work????
 

thenuge

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Break the law??? How is that exactly????
Well there’s legality and then there’s ethics. It’s illegal because it depends on the most basic premise of the whole music industry, which is that if I reach in to your pocket to steal money, it’s on you if you don’t notice. If you notice and sue that = legal, and if you don’t sue that = ethics. I learned this the hard way with the first band I was in that had to deal with a producer and having to hire a lawyer. The producer’s contract had him getting a piece ‘in perpetuity’ (meaning, forever) of everything we ever did. And we had to say ‘errr, no’, and when confronted his response was “it’s a standard industry contract”. Say no more. So on youtube, you can upload someone else’s music and if the copyright owners haven’t blocked it or monetized it, then you are free to use it and earn money from it. That’s theft, plain and simple. The fine print doesn’t ablsolve them. This isn’t just music either. If you’ve ever clicked on a video there with lots of hits and then there’s a suggested video with more (or less) hits and that’s the same video and the original one, that’s what’s going on; someone stole the original video hoping to profit on it. Youtube is in a bind similar to facebook; “what people post is not our responsibility, until it is” and they don’t care, until they have to.
 

Mcjnic

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Having lost tens of millions of dollars in their attempt at suing individuals for MP3 Piracy, the RIAA has taken a novel approach to combat the financial losses due to Piracy.
In a brilliant move by the RIAA, the historical standards set forth for individual recording quality has been rewritten and updated, as of 1998. It has been a closely guarded secret of the RIAA and their affiliates.
What was once a laser focus on the musical art form of style, execution, and function has now been shifted to producing mundane, vapid, and predictable songs for distribution.
Robert Smithy, current CRO of the Atlantic Division of the RIAA has stated, “this new model has been the best revenge served to the online Pirates. We have shifted to serving up garbage to these thieves! If they want to steal, let them steal our trash.”
When asked if this negative artistic shift will impact the musical art form, Smithy replied, "Of course. But shoveling out this crap to those cretins is worth it in the long run."
 

Nacci

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sorry but at this time in 2019 - there is little to no content on YouTube that is stolen or free.

YouTube's current ContentID tools catch almost everything - and their manual tools let copyright holders catch most everything else. Once caught - which is virtually immediate (try it) - the owner of the music that some has posted without permission is then able to give their permission in three ways (this is all mostly automated with the major labels) - 1. Have the music removed from the video or the video pulled outright, 2. demonetize the video - meaning take the share of the advertising revenue that the video poster might have earned, 3. Let the video run as-is with permission (as a marketing, educational, or promotional tool).

As end user's we pay through watching ads.

There is nothing Stolen

There is nothing Free.

There used to be - but that was fixed many years ago. And that fix continues to be constantly tweaked.
Goia’s talk was posted in 2015.
 

dsop

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Break the law??? How is that exactly????
Remember when Google decided to make all library books available in their entirety online? It was squashed fairly quickly, but Google (YouTube) is easily the most nefarious entity in the universe. Sooner or later the truth behind their purported unbiased search algorithm will be revealed.
My main point regarding their abuse of the law (along with Facebook) has to do with the way they've exploited the incredibly naive "fair use" doctrine AKA The Digital Millennium Copyright Act. They encourage users' posting of protected works and then disparage copyright owners when take-down notices are enforced.

YouTube is Not Entitled to “Safe Harbor” Status

YouTube and its parent Alphabet have obliterated the original meaning of the “safe harbor” law with their bullying and coercive schemes to get their users to disrespect and ignore copyright.

YouTube squeaked past its litigation with Viacom by settling their case after a four-year mutual war of attrition. But what came out of that litigation was the best measuring stick for whether YouTube is still entitled to the protections of the “safe harbor.” The most important directive from the court in those Viacom decisions goes something like this: If YouTube is “substantially influencing their user behavior” toward infringing, then YouTube is not entitled to the safe harbor. It’s that straightforward.
https://www.grammy.com/grammys/videos/maria-schneider-testimony

 

ARGuy

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Some bands are doing living room shows and making a good living at it. Sure, it's not an ideal situation, but musicians are making money.
Are there bands that are doing living room shows that make enough money doing them that they don't need to work other non - music jobs?
 

Mcjnic

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Are there bands that are doing living room shows that make enough money doing them that they don't need to work other non - music jobs?
Yes.
Bill Mallonee
Voted #65 by Paste Music Magazine of the “Top 100 Living Songwriters”.
With close to 100 CDs released, he’s what you might call prolific.
Bill and his wife Mariah Rose have been doing livingroom shows for several years.
Obviously it is not the only musical endeavor he utilizes. You won’t find all his CDs on the streaming services. He’s working outside of the mainstream in that regard. Fact is, he’s been outside of the mainstream for almost thirty years.
But he doesn’t flip burgers or dig ditches. He’s a humble musician that lives within his means ... and is considered by some to be one of the greatest songwriters ever to set foot on this planet.
 

dcrigger

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Well there’s legality and then there’s ethics. It’s illegal because it depends on the most basic premise of the whole music industry, which is that if I reach in to your pocket to steal money, it’s on you if you don’t notice. If you notice and sue that = legal, and if you don’t sue that = ethics. I learned this the hard way with the first band I was in that had to deal with a producer and having to hire a lawyer. The producer’s contract had him getting a piece ‘in perpetuity’ (meaning, forever) of everything we ever did. And we had to say ‘errr, no’, and when confronted his response was “it’s a standard industry contract”. Say no more. So on youtube, you can upload someone else’s music and if the copyright owners haven’t blocked it or monetized it, then you are free to use it and earn money from it. That’s theft, plain and simple. The fine print doesn’t ablsolve them. This isn’t just music either. If you’ve ever clicked on a video there with lots of hits and then there’s a suggested video with more (or less) hits and that’s the same video and the original one, that’s what’s going on; someone stole the original video hoping to profit on it. Youtube is in a bind similar to facebook; “what people post is not our responsibility, until it is” and they don’t care, until they have to.
Except what you are describing is simple stated - no longer true. There literally is no "posting someone else's music" and not getting caught. If the copyright owner blocks - then you wasted your time. If they demonetize - then YOU HAVE PERMISSION - You just don't get paid. In other words - "thank you for promoting our art in a way that we think is beneficial and profitable". And then if they do neither - you haven't gotten away with anything - YOU HAVE PERMISSION.

And there are plenty of legitimate reasons for posting "other people's music" on YouTube with no intent of ripping them off. Reviews is one. Educational critique, demonstration and analysis are others. The world of music runs on promotion... currently YouTube is the single most productive venue for music promotion in the world. If an audience today (particularly a young audience) cannot find an artist (particularly a new artist) on Youtube in some promotional way - that artist is literally doomed in today's market.

So sorry - no. 10 years ago I would've have agreed with you completely about YouTube. But the YouTube of then is simply not the YouTube of today - not when it comes to rights management. Their automated Content ID systems finds EVERYTHING - even the most obscure recordings. And you pretty much have to mangle the music beyond all recognition to get past it. Meaning it is no longer necessary for labels and artists to FIND possible offenders in order to block them (as it once was) - now YouTube does ALL of the heavy lifting on that.

It really has been a remarkable turnaround. I have my squabbles with their lack of a proper educational use license - but that doesn't discount the incredible job the have done in turning this around.
 

dcrigger

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Remember when Google decided to make all library books available in their entirety online? It was squashed fairly quickly, but Google (YouTube) is easily the most nefarious entity in the universe. Sooner or later the truth behind their purported unbiased search algorithm will be revealed.
My main point regarding their abuse of the law (along with Facebook) has to do with the way they've exploited the incredibly naive "fair use" doctrine AKA The Digital Millennium Copyright Act. They encourage users' posting of protected works and then disparage copyright owners when take-down notices are enforced.



https://www.grammy.com/grammys/videos/maria-schneider-testimony

Maria's testimony is over 5 YEARS OLD!!!

Sorry but talking about the YouTube of 5 years ago in the context of now.... well, we might as well discuss the current impact of MySpace!!! :)
 

Topsy Turvy

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I think you're missing the point. More music is being enjoyed by more people now than at any other time in history. More profit is being generated from that as a result as well. The issue is that almost all of that profit is being funneled to those who had NOTHING to do with the creation of that music.
Laws and their enforcement need to catch up with technology. This has happened many times in the past. Eventually public outcry leads to regulation. Technology can solve all of these problems very simply. Don't be fooled into thinking that some sort of genie is out of the bottle.

I hear you. All I'm saying is take the middle man out of the equation in any way you can. That seems to be the key.
 

Topsy Turvy

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Are there bands that are doing living room shows that make enough money doing them that they don't need to work other non - music jobs?
I don't know how many, but the Posies supported themselves for a while doing this very thing. I'm not sure if they are still doing it (I haven't been on their social media pages in a bit.)
 

A.TomicMorganic

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Down here at street level, live music survives. Friday night, I was in a bar where live jazz was being performed to a packed house, and people brought their toddlers up to the front of the stage so they could see how music is made. It is important to the human condition, no matter how much the economics of it are distorted by the business community.
 

dcrigger

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My man in the Union! And speaking to Congress.
Interesting stuff - but again.... SEVEN YEARS OLD.

He's talking primarily about file sharing... and yet today, file sharing isn't anywhere near the top of the music industries challenges.

Spotify, YouTube, Apple Music, Prime Music, etc, have diminished the impact of file sharing dramatically and all legally and above-board. Obviously working out how this changes things and how to make it work for all involved is an ongoing process.

But the technological cat is out of the bag, there is no putting it back in. There is no returning to record business model of the 80's, it's gone never to return. (And to some degree, good riddance). Just as there is no point in focusing on the problems of 2012 now in 2019.
 

Nacci

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Maria's testimony is over 5 YEARS OLD!!!

Sorry but talking about the YouTube of 5 years ago in the context of now.... well, we might as well discuss the current impact of MySpace!!! :)
You are a slippery one but that, at least, did not work on me.
 

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