Cymbal Packs..Is there usually one clunker in there?

Roch

DFO Master
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
1,357
Location
Ottawa Valley, Ontario
Been playing the Zildjian k Custom Dark cymbal set for just over a year now and I like the three cymbals but for some reason I can't get into the hats..they seem so void of musicality and lack volume or definition..I use A Mastersounds and there is no comparison..I wonder that when they sell multiple cymbals in a box that they might not all be winners...anybody have the same experience?
 

JimmySticks

DFO Master
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
3,103
Reaction score
3,938
Location
Queens NY
I think these are known to be on the quiet side and have a sound mostly used for jazz, smokey and subtle.

I can't say for sure, but I don't think any of the big cymbal companies would let a lousy sounding cymbal leave the factory, in a pack or as an individual.
 

premierplayer

DFO Veteran
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
2,678
Reaction score
815
Location
Old Line State, USA
I'm not a box set buyer, I not a same brand / same series cymbal player. I feel like you need to individually select the members of the team.
That said, the only experience I've ever had with a box set, the ride was ok, crash sounded cracked - broken - dead, hats were awesome.
 

mtarrani

DFO Star
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
10,583
Reaction score
3,562
Location
Deltona, FL
Because I don't use anything but hats and rides I am not a member of the target demographic for companies that put out box sets. One of these days they will realize that there is a half percent of us who play music that requires all cymbals to be crashes and rides at the same time. The closest I have seem a company come is the Sabian Crescent Hammertone set (hats, two rides and a china a la Jeff Hamilton.) I don't play chinas (although I own one just in case I get a Dixieland gig), but if, say, Paiste released a jazzy or pop-ish B20 set with flat, sizzle and regular rides, and 13 or 14 inch hats I would probably snap it up.
 

Matched Gripper

DFO Master
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
4,256
Reaction score
4,062
Been playing the Zildjian k Custom Dark cymbal set for just over a year now and I like the three cymbals but for some reason I can't get into the hats..they seem so void of musicality and lack volume or definition..I use A Mastersounds and there is no comparison..I wonder that when they sell multiple cymbals in a box that they might not all be winners...anybody have the same experience?
I think the risk of getting a cymbal in a cymbal pack that you don’t like runs higher with K Zildjians. No 2 seem to sound alike. But, what you think is a clunker may just be the kind of variation K Zildjians are known for that someone else may love. JMO!
 

Roch

DFO Master
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
5,199
Reaction score
1,357
Location
Ottawa Valley, Ontario
Yeah..it is probably subjective..I am used to a louder set of hats so that is possibly why I feel they have no projection or tonality...The two crashes and the ride are really nice..
 

Drumbumcrumb

Very well Known Member
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Messages
607
Reaction score
802
Location
Rhode Island
I’ve found that when you transition from one sound palette to another that’s quite different, the first reaction is often “omg, that’s terrible”. Our brains get used to a certain sound and it becomes “the right sound” against which we measure others. The thing to do is put those K hats on the stand and LEAVE THEM THERE. Eventually, you’ll hear the A Mastersounds and think they’re brash and overpowering. Unless you’re playing something that specifically calls for it, it seems to me that the darker, more subtle K hats are more in line with a modern sound. The lines between so-called Jazz cymbals and mainstream are blurred beyond distinction.

Anyways, that’s my take. Put the Ks on and leave em on until they become your new normal. I doubt you’ve got a dud set of hats (the ride is usually the iffy ingredient in a box set IME, especially Ks - you might get one that sounds like you’d expect or you might not). If you can, listen to someone else play them too, sometimes we are too close to really hear what’s going on. And coming from a very different sound, the qualities are exaggerated so that dry and dark can sound TOO dry, TOO dark, when really they’re quite nice.
 

coyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2021
Messages
49
Reaction score
45
Location
USA
They would never mix a clunker in on purpose......
The problem is that it’s VERY subjective. What may sound to one ear as a good mix of cymbals might, to another ear, sound too _______ (alike, different, weird, etc). Just as I would not want someone else selecting my suits for me or selecting my car for me or selecting my breakfast for me, so I would not want someone selecting a cymbal mix for me. And if it doesn’t really matter anyway, then why not get a Camber B8 stamped cymbal set for $150 and be done with it all?
 

Tdipaul

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
240
Reaction score
453
Location
NJ
I don't think any of the big cymbal companies would let a lousy sounding cymbal leave the factory, in a pack or as an individual.

Hmmm
 

EvEnStEvEn

~Lounge Lizard~
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
18,881
Reaction score
4,690
Location
Oklur Homer
I've had a pair of 14" Avedis Mastersounds for many years and always loved them but after using several pairs of hand hammered Turkish made hats over the past few years whenever I put the Mastersounds back up they seem kind of loud, clunky & heavy, to the point I seldom even use them anymore. I think my ears and touch have gotten spoiled by those turkish hats I have from Masterwork & Soultone.
 

lossforgain

Team DFO
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
16,173
Reaction score
4,290
Location
Lancaster, PA
I’ve heard clunkers in a pack-group, but it could also be that you just don’t like the particular model of hats that come in the pack. I am not a huge fan of that particular model of hats, but I like the crashes and ride.
 

Lennykenard

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2019
Messages
102
Reaction score
90
Location
Lockport, NY
Been playing the Zildjian k Custom Dark cymbal set for just over a year now and I like the three cymbals but for some reason I can't get into the hats..they seem so void of musicality and lack volume or definition..I use A Mastersounds and there is no comparison..I wonder that when they sell multiple cymbals in a box that they might not all be winners...anybody have the same experience?
I’ve used my 14” K Custom Hi Hats in so many settings…rock, metal, jazz, brass bands, musicals/pit orchestras, huge venues, small venues…etc. Such a versatile set of cymbals. I’m sorry yours didn’t work well for you!
 

JimmySticks

DFO Master
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
3,103
Reaction score
3,938
Location
Queens NY
The problem is that it’s VERY subjective. What may sound to one ear as a good mix of cymbals might, to another ear, sound too _______ (alike, different, weird, etc). Just as I would not want someone else selecting my suits for me or selecting my car for me or selecting my breakfast for me, so I would not want someone selecting a cymbal mix for me. And if it doesn’t really matter anyway, then why not get a Camber B8 stamped cymbal set for $150 and be done with it all?

You're an experienced player that has likely listened to and played hundreds of cymbals and you know how to put your own set together. You know what sounds good together. But a newbie that has no idea about cymbals would do well with a pack, because it's a single line of cymbals that belong together and are meant to be played together.

I made a lot of mistakes at the beginning trying to match my own cymbals. It's like letting an 8 year old pick out his own suit, it was awful! Lol
 

Bijan

DFO Veteran
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
2,455
Reaction score
392
Location
Saco Maine
I got a Zildjian set from DCP- 23” sweet ride, 15” new beats, 18/20 thin crash. I love the whole set- the newer As are killer.
 

distantplanet

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Messages
48
Reaction score
50
Location
Washington, D.C.
I bought a set of newer Zildjian As and with my newbie ears, I love them. 22” sweet ride, 14” New Beats, 16” & 18” thin crashes.
 

Tama CW

DFO Master
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
3,870
Reaction score
3,586
Location
SE Connecticut
I’ve found that when you transition from one sound palette to another that’s quite different, the first reaction is often “omg, that’s terrible”. Our brains get used to a certain sound and it becomes “the right sound” against which we measure others. The thing to do is put those K hats on the stand and LEAVE THEM THERE. Eventually, you’ll hear the A Mastersounds and think they’re brash and overpowering. Unless you’re playing something that specifically calls for it, it seems to me that the darker, more subtle K hats are more in line with a modern sound. The lines between so-called Jazz cymbals and mainstream are blurred beyond distinction.

Anyways, that’s my take. Put the Ks on and leave em on until they become your new normal. I doubt you’ve got a dud set of hats (the ride is usually the iffy ingredient in a box set IME, especially Ks - you might get one that sounds like you’d expect or you might not). If you can, listen to someone else play them too, sometimes we are too close to really hear what’s going on. And coming from a very different sound, the qualities are exaggerated so that dry and dark can sound TOO dry, TOO dark, when really they’re quite nice.

Great point. I've have a number of old Zildjian A's and K's that I "hated" at first. A year later I considered many of them "special" if not "irreplaceable." And that's more a function of me getting
wider exposure to the vast array of sounds out there.
 


Top