Dear Ludwig: It's Time Reissue a Real Ringo Snare

bellbrass

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Now that they have the mahogany / poplar Legacy drums, I think it's about time they do a true Ringo model. Mahogany shell, reissue throwoff, tone control, 8 lugs, COB hoops, authentic oyster pearl wrap, and most importantly: a 5.5" x 14" shell.

KO, maybe you can contribute as to what would constitute a close-as-it-gets reissue.

Heck, I'd be happy with all of the above and a P-85 throwoff. Even without a tone control.

Ludwig, we're waiting......
 

thin shell

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Ringo's snare also has the older style narrow and deep snare beds.
 
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I guess I will have to "suffer" with my 5 x 14 Legacy Classic ten lug snare. I can see your point though, they did a decent job of capturing the vibe of the "Ringo" Kit with the Legacy Classic Liverpool 4. Sure they didn't get the shell the same or the number of lugs on the snare right (among other details), but they hit enough right that the casual Beatles fan would Jones over the kit.

I would have liked it if Ludwig would have made the white resocote interiors as an option on the Legacy Mahogany kits.
 

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K.O.

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The biggest downfall would be the wrap. The new stuff looks good but doesn't really match the old stuff when seen side by side.

Other than the wrap you can spec out a pretty close drum, 8 lugs, legacy shell (I suspect at some point you could get the mahogany 3 ply in this wrap), the new small keystone badge is pretty close.

Some details they just aren't likely to reproduce like the BB muffler and the P-83...not that it would be impossible to do. I know some have asked for a Ringo build drum with the badge one panel over from the throw and been turned down by the factory on that even though it doesn't seem like it would be a tough request to accommodate. They'd need to leave the gaskets off the lugs and thin brass hoops would be a plus.

Oh and 5.5" depth.

Fender and Gibson have custom shops that specialize in building instruments where they do this sort of detail work and they make a fortune off the results but it doesn't seem to catch on when it comes to drums.

Just for comparison's sake here is a 60's drum (Pioneer snare) next to another in the new version of the wrap. The drum on the bottom is one I built myself using a three ply shell I had. Since then I've bought both Ludwig's recent version of the OBP Jazz Festival and a real deal 60's OBP Jazz Fest.

Of course if your whole set is wearing that wrap it looks just fine...
 

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bellbrass

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KO,

I knew we'd get the skinny on an accurate reissue from you. For the Beatles purists, I suppose it'll never be just right. But for a lot of Ludwig fans, they could maybe commission an accurate oyster wrap from Delmar, make a stamped badge, do it in a 5.5" shell, and it really wouldn't be a big gamble for them. Then the real Ringo fans could outfit them with COB hoops a tone control, etc.

Maybe they could get Ringo behind it in the form of signed interior labels. I bet Ringo would participate if his share of the profits went to charity. At that point, it would be a premium-priced drum, but if they did an initial run of 100, they would all sell pretty fast. C'mon, Ludwig, I know you're reading this..... :hello2:
 

bzzfkt

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I think that's a great idea. They could go so many different directions with it. (*It would be an added bonus if they could rework the tone control to be more functional).
They most likely would charge BIG $$$ for a drum like that. People most certainly would pay it.
 

singleordoubleheads

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If it was a "true Ringo" reissue, I bet Ludwig would sell a TON of 'em. Esp w/many Baby Boomers hitting retirement age, would make a nice "capstone" of about 50 years from first seeing Ringo on ES in 1964 to the present day.
 

K.O.

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If they did the same drum they did for Bun E. but in Oyster Black with a P-85 they'd be pretty close. They made 100 of the Legacy shell 8 lug Bun E. Carlos snares and they sold out very quickly. I wouldn't think that the 5.5" shell would be tough to replicate. Even with the modern wrap if they got the main details right (shell depth, badge placement, 3 ply shell) they should be able to sell them all quite quickly, especially if a true limited edition (and so marked). If they could get Ringo's participation (or put a Beatles logo on it) they could sell them for even more $ and they'd probably sell out even faster but, if not, then the "Invasion" snare, or whatever they chose to call it would still seem like a no-brainer from a marketing standpoint.

Heck I've got 4 OBP snares (including two actual 60's drums) and I'd probably still spring for a drum as described above if they made it. Making it a true limited edition is the key. Vague claims of "we're not making too many of these" isn't the same as a sticker inside saying this drum is #X of 100 (or whatever) the way they did on Bun's signature drum (I have #27 of 100).

Here's a recent picture of the actual drum they need to copy...a guitar company would copy it right down to the slightly damaged parts of the wrap.
 

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thin shell

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Unless they planned on using the parts on other drums beyond the limited run, it would not be possible to make only 100 drums if they had to replicate either or both the baseball bat muffler and P83. Making a dead on accurate badge would also add greatly to the cost. The cost of setting up for those parts would easily make each drum a couple of thousand each if they were only going to make 100. Possibly more.

Another downside is that if they were to make 100% accurate replicas as far as wrap, badge and muffler placement, people would start trying to sell them as original by throwing a few vintage parts on them and doctoring the shells to look old. Someone who knows what they are looking for could spot it from a mile away but less knowledgeable people could easily be fooled.

All of this coupled with the fact that there is nobody at Ludwig knowledgeable enough to get all of the details right. I base this statement on all of the near misses they have pulled of on replicas.
 

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I don't think they'd need to replicate the P-83 or the BB muffler to sell these and the new keystone is probably close enough. It would be nice if they did replicate these parts but, as you say, not economically feasible unless they were going to use them throughout the line (unlikely).

The wrap is always going to be a dead giveaway of a vintage vs. modern drum unless they reformulated that as well. I don't even know if that would even be possible since the original was cellulose acetate and they seem to have stopped using that in 1970 when the "bowling ball" versions replaced the earlier stuff. I know they still make acetate in China so maybe it could be done.

A perfect recreation, while it would be cool, is probably not do-able. Heck you'd need to get the wrap into the scarf joint (which they don't even use anymore) to do it right....but if they could really try to get as close as feasible with the parts they have available it would still be a neat snare drum.
 

thin shell

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K.O. said:
I don't think they'd need to replicate the P-83 or the BB muffler to sell these and the new keystone is probably close enough. It would be nice if they did replicate these parts but, as you say, not economically feasible unless they were going to use them throughout the line (unlikely).The wrap is always going to be a dead giveaway of a vintage vs. modern drum unless they reformulated that as well. I don't even know if that would even be possible since the original was cellulose acetate and they seem to have stopped using that in 1970 when the "bowling ball" versions replaced the earlier stuff. I know they still make acetate in China so maybe it could be done.A perfect recreation, while it would be cool, is probably not do-able. Heck you'd need to get the wrap into the scarf joint (which they don't even use anymore) to do it right....but if they could really try to get as close as feasible with the parts they have available it would still be a neat snare drum.

I don't think so either but the OP and others mentioned having a repro muffler and pp-83.
 

bellbrass

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I don't think Ludwig will go the way of Gibson and do a 100% accurate replica and then slap a $2,000.00 price tag on it....it's not really their M.O. to do that. They will do that with limited edition snares, like they have with the Dunnett / Kirchler models, but not for something like this. I could see them doing a special wrap, though. I'd be happy with that, a P-85, COB hoops, and a sticker on the inside. Ringo has said he will no longer respond to fan mail, so i doubt he'd be on board for signed stickers, a la Tama's signature series. But one can always hope. And....a stamped badge (as opposed to the current cast brass or etched Keystones) would not cost them much extra at all.
 

davezedlee

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i'd bet the biggest issue would be dealing with all the "Real Ringo" experts, when the REAL ONE could probably care less (or even know)
 

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The wrap is the most important component they'd have to do some work to get right, based on the fact that it is no longer made.
 

bellbrass

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KO can confirm (or refute) this...but I think the wrap used back in the day of Ringo and the 60s had clear parts on the oyster where the outer mahogany ply actually shone through, giving those spots a bit of a brown shade. The recent wrap I think emulates this. If they did a faithful reissue with the mahogany shells, they'd have to do a new wrap to get that effect.
 
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