Declining Hearing - Electronic Drums Help?

[jmcohen]

I know there have been numerous threads regarding acoustic vs electronic drums. I have used electronic drums on occasion and believe them to be very different instruments. My question is essentially: Has anyone switched to electronic drums to preserve their hearing?

I am 63 and don’t expect to ever gig with a rock band again, although I am part of a jazz quartet that hopefully will play out some. For that I have a tiny cajon-based acoustic set up. So the concept of wearing earplugs is really not at issue.

But for the daily drum play wherein I put on some tunes to play along with, I am wondering if a switch to electronic drums may be the best move for me. As it is, I put on over-the-ear headphones that do a pretty good job of attenuating the drum and cymbal sound that reaches my ears. But, my additional problem is that I have increasingly been playing a bit louder as I age. I think I am just compensating for a diminishing faculty in playing.

My thoughts are that with an E kit I can twiddle knobs to adjust the output, even I am hitting the drum pads pretty hard. This would also greatly please my wife, which, in my experience, is always a good thing.

Has anyone switched to electronic drums for this purpose? I really don’t want to give up playing rock with recorded music.

Thanks.

Josh

 

[Tornado]

You may be playing louder with your headphones on because you've got the volume of the tunes up top loud, or maybe that you're blocking our so much sound that you can't hear the drums. I think most drummers have a tendency to play louder when they can't hear themselves. I know I do.

I think you're on the right track in thinking that an E-kit would help because those would be coming through your headphones. And yes, your wife would be happier. However, you can essentially do the same thing with a couple of inexpensive mics and a small mixer. Or maybe a Yamaha EAD10.

 

[Trilock_Gurtu]

You can buy pretty affordable custom fitted ear plugs with different filters. Each filter will reduce the volume/frequencies by db level. If you're environment is OK with acoustic drums, but you just want to provide more protection from the noise, that would be the most cost effective option to first explore. Even generic foam ear plugs might be a start, all though the ones I described above provide a better listening experience, just getting rid of the higher db levels, but leaving the sound "normal", not muffled.

 

[cochlea]

It all boils down to the Sound Pressure Level being delivered to the ear, as well as exposure time. Yes, an electronic kit with headphones can be a good option for preserving one's hearing. However, it all depends on the volume level selected. I had a Roland TD-12 that allowed me to play at a comfortable level through headphones, controlling the level of the drums and the backing tracks I played along to using the AUX input. However, the volume range on that module was extensive and I could easily turn it up to the point where the internal sounds or the backing tracks were no longer at a safe level. I have since gone back to acoustic drums and use a Yamaha EAD10 to monitor my playing. As with the TD-12, the volume range is extensive. Set at or near "full on," the signal can be too high to ensure preservation of one's hearing. However, set to a more reasonable level, this has been an excellent way for me to practice at a safe level.

 

[jmcohen]

I must be missing something. A couple of you have recommended getting an EAD-10 for my acoustic drums. How does this help me if I am still producing the same sound (noise/volume) from my acoustic drums?

 

[Tornado]

I must be missing something. A couple of you have recommended getting an EAD-10 for my acoustic drums. How does this help me if I am still producing the same sound (noise/volume) from my acoustic drums?

Because with isolating headphones and the drum sound coming into them from your mixer, you don't have to play as loud to hear yourself. I suspect you are playing louder than you need to with your isolating headphones on and your tunes cranked playing through them.

This assuming that not hitting your drums as hard is an option for you. Yes, you could hit electronic drums as hard as you want and just turn the volume down, but wouldn't want to practice that way. That's just reinforcing bad habits.

 

[mebeatee]

Get a set of silent stroke heads...or cut yoga mats to fit....
Some times folks crank their headphones or else turn the amp up too much...but that’s common sense basically.
Also there is nothing worse than listening to the constant clack clack of sticks on edrums/ecymbals..... (can’t you play ‘em with brushes then....uhhhhh)
I rarely go into the city these daze to the music stores, but when I do I find it quite amusing to see/hear a few folks whacking away on ekits....sounds like a stenographer pool typewriter soundscape....
bt

 

[jmcohen]

This assuming that not hitting your drums as hard is an option for you. Yes, you could hit electronic drums as hard as you want and just turn the volume down, but wouldn't want to practice that way. That's just reinforcing bad habits.

I get what you are saying, but I don’t think I wail on ‘em because I want to hear them better. I was just experimenting a bit, and I feel the cymbals just sound better when I give them a moderate, not hard, whack. I have seen some drummers that swing for the fences on every stroke. That is definitely not me. But I am no longer the high school jazz drummer that could lightly dance across the heads with good tempo and even dynamics. And again, since I believe I am at the sunset portion of my “career,” I don’t really call it practice. It’s more a leisure activity.

 

[jmcohen]

Tornado,
I just reread my last post. I had to quickly finish it up as I was needed in the kitchen to grate some cheese! I don’t mean to be argumentative with you. I have a great deal of respect for you based on your DFO contributions over the years. I am just trying to give you a bit more background on my situation.

I will routinely turn down the volume of the music in my headphones to the point that I must play more quietly for this very reason. I find that I either gradually play too loudly, or the next song just is a bit quieter and needs to be turned up, or…

I don’t know. I am just frustrated. As anyone who is losing their hearing knows, it really does affect a lot of things. I’m not quite to the point where I need hearing aids, but it sure does get isolating in social circumstances.

 

[cochlea]

I must be missing something. A couple of you have recommended getting an EAD-10 for my acoustic drums. How does this help me if I am still producing the same sound (noise/volume) from my acoustic drums

The key is using a good set of isolating headphones. That will keep much of the high intensity ambient sound from your acoustic drums from entering your ears through gaps under the cushions. Most of the sound you'll hear will be delivered directly through the headphones from the microphone housing connect to the EAD module. If you use headphones that are not specifically isolating headphones, you'll continue to get a lot of sound from the drums leaking in under the loose fitting cushions, which doesn't address the issue you're trying to avoid.

 

[mydadisjr]

I am almost 70 and am also very concerned about my hearing. After a lifetime of gigging I do not play with bands at all any more, I just do some drum set practicing at home for my own enjoyment. I think it is a mistake to use headphones of any kind at all, with standard or electronic drums. I use total noise blocking hearing protectors (like shooters or airline workers wear) and I have a small pair of speakers set up next to my drumset so I can practice along with CDs.

I purposely keep the CD player to a medium-low volume so I really have to LISTEN and also play softer. My touch has gotten much better, and I think I am playing with more subtlety (is that a word?) than ever before.

Works for me.

I also used to practice loud electric blues guitar regularly. Had given that up too, I practice my lead playing on acoustic guitar now.

I REALLY do not want to get hearing aids.

 

[Whitten]

Yes, I use the GKN headphones. I also have some audiologist fitted -25db earplugs. You can't put a price on your hearing.
I don't think e-drums will change much, you can still turn them up too loud. For real piece of mind I recommend the audiologist route, and in addition pick up some GKN Ultraphones.

 

[jmcohen]

Yes, I use the GKN headphones. I also have some audiologist fitted -25db earplugs. You can't put a price on your hearing.
I don't think e-drums will change much, you can still turn them up too loud. For real piece of mind I recommend the audiologist route, and in addition pick up some GKN Ultraphones.

What do you mean “the audiologist route?” Get fitted for -25db earplugs?

 

[CAMDRUMS]

I switched to drums for a while doe to hearing. I was playing a lot of loud rock stuff at the time, and it was very helpful. I could wear ear buds and a shooting headset over my ears and put the volume at a reasonable level. I switched back to acoustic because I started playing lighter music and also got custom moulded ear plugs, which I highly recommend. Also, it is pretty impossible to gig with electronics in the situations I am in - multiple bands using the same kit all night or switching kits after one set.

 

[cochlea]

Yes, I use the GKN headphones. I also have some audiologist fitted -25db earplugs. You can't put a price on your hearing.
I don't think e-drums will change much, you can still turn them up too loud. For real piece of mind I recommend the audiologist route, and in addition pick up some GKN Ultraphones.

As an audiologist who is also a drummer, I agree. In addition to getting custom hearing protection, I would encourage everyone to have their hearing monitored on a regular basis rather than waiting until you notice difficulty. There is a specialized test (called Otoacoustic Emissions) that can show early signs of noise-induced hearing loss before it becomes evident in conversation or shows up on a standard audiogram.

 

[jmcohen]

As an audiologist who is also a drummer, I agree. In addition to getting custom hearing protection, I would encourage everyone to have their hearing monitored on a regular basis rather than waiting until you notice difficulty. There is a specialized test (called Otoacoustic Emissions) that can show early signs of noise-induced hearing loss before it becomes evident in conversation or shows up on a standard audiogram.

Okay, this does sound like a good plan. Pardon my ignorance, but help me along with the plan. Should I get good audiologist-made earplugs and play along with the music I hear with the Ultraphones, or should I also mic my drums so that I can hear them (at a low volume) through the headphones too and therefore not be tempted to play louder in order to hear them?

 

[cochlea]

I would meet with an audiologist to first get a thorough baseline assessment of your hearing. At that time I would also bring up your interest in drumming and ask about options to keep the volume at a safe level. There are several options available, as some have already pointed out here. There are custom-made sound attenuating ear plugs that would be good for practicing at home. I would suggest looking into "musicians ear plugs" if you're going that route because they are filtered specifically for music listening. Another option is to get custom in-the-ear monitors that would allow you to mix the sound of your mic'd drums and an accompanying recording. However, you need to be sure that the volume is set at a safe level. A good set of sound isolating headphones can also accomplish this without going the custom route. That is what I use with my Yamaha EAD10. You wouldn't want to use custom ear plugs under your isolation phones because there is a tendency to counteract the attenuation from the ear plugs by turning up the volume level going into the phones. I saw a well-know drummer do this at a drum clinic many years ago.

I don't know where you live but there are some audiologists who specialize in working with musicians. For example, Vanderbilt University has an audiology clinic for musicians. There are two audiologists in my area (Rochester, NY) who work extensively with musicians. As an audiologist myself, I am fortunate that I have access to equipment in my university lab that can measure output in the ear canal while playing to determine the dBSPL level going into the ear. This has helped me evaluate different drum modules I've had over the years to set the volume at a safe level.

 

[jmcohen]

Okay, I think I am understanding you now. If I grabbed the UltraPhones and used them to pipe in my music at a low to moderate level, I should be golden. I will need to be disciplined in not turning up the music too loud and not playing my drums loudly to try and make up for the very low volume at which I am hearing them. This after getting a baseline of my hearing loss from an audiologist.

I can look into a specialized audiologist in my area.

 

[cochlea]

Okay, I think I am understanding you now. If I grabbed the UltraPhones and used them to pipe in my music at a low to moderate level, I should be golden. I will need to be disciplined in not turning up the music too loud and not playing my drums loudly to try and make up for the very low volume at which I am hearing them. This after getting a baseline of my hearing loss from an audiologist.

I can look into a specialized audiologist in my area.

IMO, you are right on track! Being disciplined is critical to a successful outcome. Unfortunately, too many people don't realize what they're doing to their hearing until it's too late. The onset of hearing loss can be so gradual that most people wait approximately 10 years before they decide to seek help. As much as I enjoy music and playing drums, I am turned off by those who think music has to be loud to be enjoyable or that "louder is better." I wish you well.

 

[jmcohen]

T

IMO, you are right on track! Being disciplined is critical to a successful outcome. Unfortunately, too many people don't realize what they're doing to their hearing until it's too late. The onset of hearing loss can be so gradual that most people wait approximately 10 years before they decide to seek help. As much as I enjoy music and playing drums, I am turned off by those who think music has to be loud to be enjoyable or that "louder is better." I wish you well.

Thank you. A few months back I auditioned for a rock band. The guitarist’s amp was evidently stuck on 11, cuz that is what he played at the whole time, including between songs while we were discussing which tune to play next. No thank you.

I have an audiology appointment set for April 11. I’ll wait until after that to purchase anything to assist in my new normal playing routine.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and helpful responses. For the time being I will continue to play my beloved ‘68 Club Dates.