Deconstructing the Vernel Fournier / Ahmad Jamal "Poinciana" beat

Griener

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Thank you very much, I enjoyed that.
I really appreciate your efforts and the Vernel Fournier praise.
There's so much to discover in is playing.
On "Autumn Leaves" he plays a similar groove, but with brushes and much faster.
And I have yet to figure out his exact sticking on the Rumba part of "Woody'N' You"
Such great technique presented in such a unobtrusive way.

Took me a while to realize that you play a "flat " drum set.
Sounds really good with those Earthtone heads.
 

jakeo

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Nice - one of my all time faves. New Orleans drummers have that something that you can't find anywhere else.
 

Griener

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Thanks! It's an old RIMS Headset kit.
Now can anyone identify the cymbals?
Well, of course the ride is a Paiste Medium flat ride from the seven sounds series (Formula 602), the hihats look (and sound) also like Paiste Formula 602, probably early pre-serial ones. The left side looks a little bit like an Ufip, but that's hard to tell.
 
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multijd

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Nice presentation! Thanks for doing this! Where did you find Vernell’s transcription?
 

hardbat

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Well, of course the ride is a Paiste Medium flat ride from the seven sounds series (Formula 602), the hihats look (and sound) also like Paiste Formula 602, probably early pre-serial ones. The left side looks a little bit like an Ufip, but that's hard to tell.
The seven sound ride is actually thin (1300g). The left side is a 16" old K (old stamp), and the hats are 13" old Italian Vibras.
 

hardbat

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Nice presentation! Thanks for doing this! Where did you find Vernell’s transcription?
Someone had scanned it and posted on the web. But it has since been taken down (possibly ordered to because of copyright issues? Just guessing). It's from Vernel's book, which has become impossible to find. As near as I could tell, it was note-for-note accurate. 6 or 7 pages if I remember right.
 

Way Out Wardell

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This is really great! The drums sound incredibly close to the record, too - really great job.
 

CC Cirillo

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Brother Dude! That was mighty fine. My favorite Jamal tune and you slayed it. That sort of thing doesn’t happen by itself. Really respect the work that must have taken. Band sounded excellent! Your kit was so well tuned for the vibe. Love those cymbals. What are they?

(Figures you’re from Sacramento. I was born and raised there. River Park. )
 

fenrir

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This sounds great, and kudos for really sitting down with it and making it work musically.

If I could make one humble suggestion it'd be to play the left hand part differently. I find that trad grip in the left and deadsticking the hats and cymbal give a better feel / kit mix when playing this type of part.

Hard to explain but you'll see Jay Bellerose do it a lot.

I've seen Ahmad play this tune with various drummers, all playing matched grip and it ends up sounding a lot more raucous than the subdued version recorded by Mr Fournier. So, this is my concept for the groove but by no means the correct one! :)
 
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hardbat

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If I could make one humble suggestion it'd be to play the left hand part differently. I find that trad grip in the left and deadsticking the hats and cymbal give a better feel / kit mix when playing this type of part.
Thanks for the advice! I never thought to try trad grip because every video I've seen (with the likes of Idris, Herlin, etc.) they all used matched. Too bad there isn't any footage of Vernel playing it - his touch is to die for.

Deadsticking is an interesting idea too. One of my problems is I don't have the best aim for the bell with the left hand, and I'd rather miss and hit the cymbal than miss and hit the wing nut. Deadsticking might help that, actually.
 
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hardbat

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Brother Dude! That was mighty fine. My favorite Jamal tune and you slayed it. That sort of thing doesn’t happen by itself. Really respect the work that must have taken. Band sounded excellent! Your kit was so well tuned for the vibe. Love those cymbals. What are they?
(Figures you’re from Sacramento. I was born and raised there. River Park. )
River Park is a great area, virtually no traffic.

Cymbals... hi hats are 13" old Italian Vibras, left side ride is an 18" old K old stamp, main ride is an 18" mid-1960s Paiste 602 flat, and on my far right is a 16" old K old stamp. Yeah thanks, they're all a pleasure to play. I'll post a video of another tune in a bit where I hit them more, you'll be able to hear them more clearly.
 


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