Die Cast Hoops on both sides?

[GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!]

I have two snare drums:

A 6.5"x14" hammered Ludwig black beauty with triple flanged hoops, and a 5.5"x14" Gretsch Brooklyn maple/poplar snare with 302 hoops. Both have 10 lugs. I recently decided to order myself a single Ludwig die cast batter side hoop, and will be receiving it soon. This raises two questions I thought I'd pose to you lovely and knowledgable folks.

First, which drum would you be more inclined to put the die cast on? I'm sure I'll eventually try it on both, but just trying to imagine the impact it will have on each drum. I know Gretsch USA customs come with die cast hoops, but have seen black beauties with them too. Which would you choose to try first?

Second, how much of an impact does it make to change the snare side rim? At $100 Canadian a pop, I figured I'd start with a batter side, but am wondering what advantages or disadvantages could come with only switching out one hoop versus both. I do know some drummers prefer a die cast batter side and triple flanged snare side, but don't know enough about why. Please enlighten me!

 

[NobleCooleyNut]

First off , I am not a fan of diecast hoops on snare drums . The exception being the Yamaha Aluminum diecast hoops . I find the cross stick sound on diecast hoops to be clanking and unpleasant .
I have played black beauties with diecast hoops and own a black beauty with triple flange hoops and I far prefer the sound of the snares with the triple flange hoops .

Zonc Diecast hoops like the Ludwig you ordered are much heavier than your triple flange hoops . They dry out the sound of the drum and the attack . I know people that love this sound just not me .

 

[bassanddrum84]

It tamed my nob dw snares overtones a lot. Kinda almost deaden it some. I love them too and bottom
However I break a lot more sticks playing rimshots a lot. Had a great cob snare I put a die cast on the bottom and kept stock hoop on top and that was almost perfect. Both ten lugger tube lugs.

 

[hsosdrum]

I own a brass-on-brass Black Beauty with die-cast hoops top and bottom and I love them on that drum. To my ears they help it produce a series of very sweet overtones that blend better with the drum's over-all sound. (To me, brass snares can have a few overtones that are too prominent.)

A lot of folks feel that Gretsch wood-shell snares with die-cast hoops top and bottom can sound too "boxy", although when I owned a Gretsch 4158 snare with die-cast hoops I didn't think it sounded "boxy" at all. In fact, it was my favorite drum out of my entire 7-piece Gretsch drumset.

 

[Radio King]

I love the sound and feel of die cast hoops on wood snares, particularly in the 6" - 6.5" depths. Metal snares, not so much.

 

[GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!]

Thanks for all the feedback so far folks, it's been very interesting to read your opinions and experiences. Strangely enough, I actually find the Gretsch wood snare to have more ringing and overtones than the BB. Maybe it's because of the hammering, but while the BB has a great bark, the Gretsch rings for days. I've controlled it with dampening until now, but think the die cast will reign it in a bit.

Still, nobody's clarified the difference between using just one die cast hoop on top versus both top and bottom. Please keep the opinions and info coming, I'm learning a lot here!

 

[GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!]

It tamed my nob dw snares overtones a lot. Kinda almost deaden it some. I love them too and bottom
However I break a lot more sticks playing rimshots a lot. Had a great cob snare I put a die cast on the bottom and kept stock hoop on top and that was almost perfect. Both ten lugger tube lugs.

I tried some dw nob snares that came stock with die cast, it really controlled the sound and seemed to increase articulation somewhat. What impact did it make to just have die cast on the bottom of your drum?

 

[Ptrick]

I have put a die cast on the top only a bunch. You get the added clarity, overtone control, and thick rim shots, but retain some openness from the bottom hoop. Top and bottom die cast on some snares is just too much and you get a boxy sound. I’d say you get most of the benefits of die cast by putting it on the top only.

 

[bassanddrum84]

I tried some dw nob snares that came stock with die cast, it really controlled the sound and seemed to increase articulation somewhat. What impact did it make to just have die cast on the bottom of your drum?

For one I wasn’t breaking as many sticks. But I’m not sure I prefer a right bottom head so it def can hold up to tight tension with out going out of round. Sound wise it gave it some great crack but still had a little of the higher end. My dw didn’t come with diecast it came with triple flange I’m guessing someone switched the hoops and kept the dw so I put after market ones on.

 

[JazzDrumGuy]

I have a bronze BB and love it. I put on die casts and they killed it. I normally run triple flange on BB's (the 6.5", modern 5" brass, 5" 20's B and the first two have coated emperors to tame the ring a tad.

I'd slap on a set of die casts on the Gretsch. I think it will recreate the classic vintage sound despite being a mid line snare. As for one or two, you can try one, but I'd go for both.

 

[halldorl]

In general I’m not a big fan of DC’s on snares but there are exceptions. Not all drums respond the same to die casts. Some drums sound better with them, some don’t IMO. When I get a new snare I usually try different hoops on it just to see what the drum has to offer with different hoops. My Tama Star single ply Maple came with die cast hoops and sounded wonderful. I tried triple flange and while it did open up more I found it lost some of it’s snap and crack. While swapping back to dc’s I played it with a DC top hoop/triple flange bottom and realised it sounded more sensitive and a bit more open but retained the snap and crack with the dc on top. Perfect marriage on that drum.

 

[drummingbulldog]

I think dc hoops are not for everyone. TF hoops are standard. They are THE standard. If you grew up playing Gretsch it's probably more of an adjustment to play TF hoops than the other way around.

I have found it easy to play & tune with DC hoops. Drums stay in tune better with DC hoops as well. I started out with Gretsch with DC hoops so I've never felt they choked a drums sound. As long as the is not bent and fits the drum shell properly, there should be no reason for choking.

The benefit of a top hoop would be more consistent tuning, authoritative rim shots & solid pronounced cross stick rimshots. I have found that drums stay in tune better with DC hoops but the TF hoops are plenty rigid to hold tuning as long as you don't club your drums like a harbor seal.

 

[mebeatee]

I took the die cast hoop off a 6 1/2 Gretsch wooden snare and replaced it with a triple flanged for the batter side, and left the die cast on the bottom. "Smoothed" out the sound a bit...HOWEVER.....this drum has a set of quasi cat gut/fishing line snares that George Ayotte made me way back in the day which as well smooths out the sound. So in this case what hoop on the bottom doesn't make that much of a difference because of the snares taking away the "crack" of metal snares. The Ayotte snares highlight the shell rather than the snap of the snares. I originally noticed this when I had the Ayotte snares on a Milestone (w/die casts) and then a Tempus (w/triple flanged) snare drum, but now they live on the Gretsch. Something tells me the Ayotte snares wouldn't be so great on a metal snare but I'm not going to bother....my metal Premier has a parallel system and my Acro sounds fine with the pure sound snares....they ain't broke.....
The die cast hoop was then put on an old 4x14 wooden John Grey....where the triple flanged one came from, while leaving the triple flanged hoop on the bottom...... So one drum...John Grey has the die cast on the top and triple flanged on the bottom....the Gretsch is reversed...triple flanged on top and die cast on the bottom.
The die cast on the John Grey sort of brightened up the sound a bit...however this drum has a very thin Evans etched head...J1....and is used strictly for brushes and mallets.
So this sort of answers the question of different hoops top and bottom, but not really in that these two snares are set up for specific applications....one where the snare material(s) is more pronounced, and the other is for brushwork/mallets and a little cross stick playing....which is a little beefier with the DC on the top of the John Grey 4x14.
bt

 

[Masecar]

I put die cast hoops on my BB and I think it sounds great. That drum also sound great with the stock 2.3mm flanged hoops. Cast is a harder edged sound overall, more powerful. Flanged is softer, probably more toneful. I'd suggest trying your new hoop on the BB first, but then try it on the Gretsch too. All of my drums respond differently to different hoops, and the only way to evaluate is to experiment.

 

[sixplymaple]

My vote is the BB. All my toms have diecast hoops. Only 1 of my snares does.

 

[CC Cirillo]

Regarding die cast on each side, I say try it just on the batter side. One of my favorite snares is my Sonor Force Birch with a diecast on the batter only. Love it, as do bandmates from different projects with different tastes. It gives it a contained resonance as if one is hearing it recorded. I do like the way die cast feels. One thing to consider though is if you to a lot off riding patterns on your rim, or backbeat rim shots. In those cases I prefer triple flange.

I’m not familiar with Gretsch snares so I won’t opine on that one, but I do have a 6.5 BB. I think the special sauce of that drum is its brass overtones. So I like it with the triple flanged. It’s the Marshall stack of snares. On a stage with loud guitars those overtones just equalize into tone. I think it’s a drum that sounds best with a band in a live setting. Sitting on top of it my tendency is to want to shut that sound down but get 10 feet away from it and I don’t think it’s a problem. Maybe if you are recording with it? But isn’t that what moongel is for?

My vote is try it on both of your drums’ batter side. Let us know your thoughts if you do that, particularly on the BB. I might want to try it!