Direct To Shell Tom Mounting

malonedrum

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As I even typed the headline into this post, I could already hear the fierce comment war that is about to commence between people who are passionate about suspension mounts vs people who prefer direct to shell (DTS) mounts, but here I am....

Anyways, I recently picked up a Gretsch Renown RN2 kit, and although those tom mounts are pretty nice, and small. I wanted to drill these out for DTS mounts instead. I ended up recorded a video of the installation process, and a comparison of the two different mounting systems sonically.

Thought some people here might enjoy it.

 

JDA

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when you removed and replaced the four lugs did you notice how easy or hard replacing the hex head mounting screws was or wasn't. curious thanks
@malonedrum
 

K.O.

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I think the Inde mounts solve the issue by having a suspension mount that can be mounted directly to the shell.

That is my preference and I do not like mounting toms (or legs) from lug positions (such as the Atlas mount), ruins the symmetry ;)
 

malonedrum

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when you removed and replaced the four lugs did you notice how easy or hard replacing the hex head mounting screws was or wasn't. curious thanks
@malonedrum
I guess I didn’t give that much thought or consideration because I do it so much with drum building projects, but it should be pretty easy. It was for this one at least.
 

JDA

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so screws came out- went (threaded) back in- no trouble; Gotcha
some issue of self-tapping screws (not plain threaded) So ok,
 

malonedrum

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I think the Inde mounts solve the issue by having a suspension mount that can be mounted directly to the shell.

That is my preference and I do not like mounting toms (or legs) from lug positions (such as the Atlas mount), ruins the symmetry ;)
Yeah, that’s a cool idea, and I’m a huge fan of iNDie drums stuff, but for me personally I like the complete look of using Gretsch components on Gretsch drums as much as possible.

I have the iNDie snare strainer on my Acrolite , but in that case I like that I didn’t have to drill new holes. For a collector or resale value that was a really great feature.
 

JimmySticks

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I think the Inde mounts solve the issue by having a suspension mount that can be mounted directly to the shell.
I'm still struggling a bit to find the best resonance with my INDe mount. Bottomed out actually seems to give my tom the best sound.

Out of curiosity, where have you found the most resonance?
 

K.O.

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Yeah, that’s a cool idea, and I’m a huge fan of iNDie drums stuff, but for me personally I like the complete look of using Gretsch components on Gretsch drums as much as possible.

I have the iNDie snare strainer on my Acrolite , but in that case I like that I didn’t have to drill new holes. For a collector or resale value that was a really great feature.
If I were putting an Inde on a Gretsch drum I would drill the drum for the Gretsch bracket and use the Inde Br2xl in it's place. That makes it so it could easily install the proper Gretsch mount on the tom at any time, thereby returning it to "factory".

I'm not especially fussy so I haven't done any major investigating into the optimal position of the adjustable part of the Inde mounts. Generally I set them where the drum will bounce the least and see how it sounds. If acceptable to me I'll leave it there, if not I'll open it up slightly and try again. I don't think any of mine are close to being wide open as far as the amount of spring induced. I'm not particularly talented at tuning drums so extra resonance often is not my goal.
 

flatwins

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I think suspension mounts became one of those industry buzz words and answered a question I personally never asked. Therefore I can follow the logic on your modification. Nice work and it looks/sounds great. I’d bet that from the audience and played along with accompanying musicians, few would be able to discern a difference.
 

ARGuy

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I'm a big fan of the original (and still the best to my ears) RIMS mounts. I've got them or the newer Alloy mounts on virtually all of my non-vintage drums except for my DW Workshop kit. I've been playing RIMS mounted drums for 40 years so I'm very familiar and comfortable with the sound and feel of RIMS mounted drums, and could not imagine taking what would be FOR ME a big step backwards in my drums' sound by using shell mounts. Suspension mounts were not invented for sustain. Anytime I hear someone say that, I know that they really don't know what they are talking about when it comes to suspension mounts.
Of course anyone can do anything they want with their own drums, and anyone that is satisfied with shell mounts, great! As far as the audience not knowing the difference, frankly, who cares? I notice a difference. I don't think the audience would notice the difference between a Gretsch Energy kit and a Gretsch Brooklyn kit, so why bother with anything above decently made entry-level drums, if that's your mind set.
 

malonedrum

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Ok I’ll bite. If isolation (or suspension) mounts weren’t developed for sustain, what was the reason? I’ve used them, primarily on vintage kits for the 50s with antiquated mounts though I was never crazy about the appearance of them.
That's one thing I like about suspension mounts, the ability to adapt a kit without having to drill or make any permanent changes. I owned a club date kit for a long time while I was in high school, and somebody let me borrow a RIMS mount to use with it, and it was a nice alternative to consider re-drilling for a different tom mount.
 

malonedrum

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I'm a big fan of the original (and still the best to my ears) RIMS mounts. I've got them or the newer Alloy mounts on virtually all of my non-vintage drums except for my DW Workshop kit. I've been playing RIMS mounted drums for 40 years so I'm very familiar and comfortable with the sound and feel of RIMS mounted drums, and could not imagine taking what would be FOR ME a big step backwards in my drums' sound by using shell mounts. Suspension mounts were not invented for sustain. Anytime I hear someone say that, I know that they really don't know what they are talking about when it comes to suspension mounts.
Of course anyone can do anything they want with their own drums, and anyone that is satisfied with shell mounts, great! As far as the audience not knowing the difference, frankly, who cares? I notice a difference. I don't think the audience would notice the difference between a Gretsch Energy kit and a Gretsch Brooklyn kit, so why bother with anything above decently made entry-level drums, if that's your mind set.
We'll I'm sorry if my interpretation or misinterpretation about RIMS mounts offends you or leaves you wanting something more. I can also acknowledge that you prefer the "before" sound over the "after" but I think we can all agree that's taste. I prefer the slight bit of choke you get from the DTS, so it's a better fit for me.

And to answer your last question. I can see that maybe an audience wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a Gretsch Energy vs Brooklyn, but for me a lot of that choice would come down to the hardware built into the kit. I'd feel much safer on stage with a kit that wasn't using cheaper/less ideal parts. Which is part of my decision to use the DTS over suspension style mounts.
 

mtarrani

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We'll I'm sorry if my interpretation or misinterpretation about RIMS mounts offends you or leaves you wanting something more. I can also acknowledge that you prefer the "before" sound over the "after" but I think we can all agree that's taste. I prefer the slight bit of choke you get from the DTS, so it's a better fit for me.

And to answer your last question. I can see that maybe an audience wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a Gretsch Energy vs Brooklyn, but for me a lot of that choice would come down to the hardware built into the kit. I'd feel much safer on stage with a kit that wasn't using cheaper/less ideal parts. Which is part of my decision to use the DTS over suspension style mounts.
I can go DTS or suspension. Matters little to me because when the instruments start playing, even unamplified ones, I cannot tell the difference. I have kits that use both methods, and I even had two custom made kits configured for DTS. No issues. Oh yeah, to really be blasphemous I also have shell mounted cymbal holders on most of my kits.
 

Seb77

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With L-rods, there is already a bit of flex between the drum and the tom post. You could try varying the height of the tom on the L-mount for different degrees of flex and thus a bit more or less decay time. Depends on the weight of the drum. I remember a Premier Artist birch where this made a big difference.

DTS sounds as if you could market this as a new idea :D

I know that with older Pearl drums it is not the mount that is on the tom, or the tube inside it for that matter, but the connection to the bass that shortens the sound. I put the tom holder into a cymbal stand post and the sound opened up right away. Try until you find the sound that works for you and then use that method.
 


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