Direct To Shell Tom Mounting

Houndog

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We'll I'm sorry if my interpretation or misinterpretation about RIMS mounts offends you or leaves you wanting something more. I can also acknowledge that you prefer the "before" sound over the "after" but I think we can all agree that's taste. I prefer the slight bit of choke you get from the DTS, so it's a better fit for me.

And to answer your last question. I can see that maybe an audience wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a Gretsch Energy vs Brooklyn, but for me a lot of that choice would come down to the hardware built into the kit. I'd feel much safer on stage with a kit that wasn't using cheaper/less ideal parts. Which is part of my decision to use the DTS over suspension style mounts.
You sidestepped the question Flatwins asked .
“ if not to increase sustain what are RIMS for ?”

You seem very sure of yourself , I’d like to know what RIMS are for ?
 

Tornado

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You like what you like, and that's all the justification you need, but I do take issue with the inability to hear the difference in the mix with a band playing. I have a Cat Maple tom with the full RIMS style mount that I thought had too much resonance/sustain for my situation. It certainly sounds that way by itself in the room it's in. So I did the gaffers tape thing. Same with the floor tom. Sounded like I wanted it to. What happened though, is that once the band was in, I had zero resonance or sustain. Just the short attack. So I eventually took the tape off. The result was the amount of resonance/sustain I thought I was getting with the tape on when the band was playing. Different story with close mics? Probably. But then I can add tapes and gels. The point is, in my experience, choked and resonant drums don't sound the same in the mix. You get less out of both.
 

mtarrani

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You like what you like, and that's all the justification you need, but I do take issue with the inability to hear the difference in the mix with a band playing. I have a Cat Maple tom with the full RIMS style mount that I thought had too much resonance/sustain for my situation. It certainly sounds that way by itself in the room it's in. So I did the gaffers tape thing. Same with the floor tom. Sounded like I wanted it to. What happened though, is that once the band was in, I had zero resonance or sustain. Just the short attack. So I eventually took the tape off. The result was the amount of resonance/sustain I thought I was getting with the tape on when the band was playing. Different story with close mics? Probably. But then I can add tapes and gels. The point is, in my experience, choked and resonant drums don't sound the same in the mix. You get less out of both.
You must have exceptional hearing. Perhaps I don't hear the difference is I am usually [intensely] concentrating on the other musicians. When I was gigging that was either a pianist or two keyboard players, or a guitarist and a keyboard player most of the time. Sometimes it was piano, double bass (both acoustic and unamplified) and a lightly amplified guitarist. And I am unmic'd always. I suspect that they audience hears the full ensemble totally differently than I do because I am listening (and watching) for audible and body language clues for changes, stops, dynamic changes, etc. It's the nature of what I play and the small circle of musicians with whom I play. I am sure I would hear things differently and, perhaps, as clearly as you, in a different setting. It's all good.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Great video. Lovely kit! Did you tape the inside of the shells to avoid blow out or did you just drill on that piece of wood? I definitely hear a difference. I think I like the DTS sound better although I wish the second DTS tom was tuned a little bit lower.

I have added DTS Mounts before on various drums. I normally center it on the shell and was surprised you didn't try to get closer to the vent holes. Otherwise, nice job.
 

CC Cirillo

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Well done video.

Sure suspension love you long time, but I prefer the DTS in both looks and sound.

But …okay… I have kits with both and when it gets loud I do bring the suspension kit.

(I remember coming back from a ten year gap in playing. Totally gone from drums and drumming. What’s the first thing I notice about drums? Virgin bass drums and suspension mounts. Everybody’s new obsession, not mine….)

The best part of this thread, though, is that it led me to your YouTube channel.

Got lost all up in there for at least an hour.

REALLY enjoy it.


Keep it up!
 

Tornado

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You must have exceptional hearing. Perhaps I don't hear the difference is I am usually [intensely] concentrating on the other musicians. When I was gigging that was either a pianist or two keyboard players, or a guitarist and a keyboard player most of the time. Sometimes it was piano, double bass (both acoustic and unamplified) and a lightly amplified guitarist. And I am unmic'd always. I suspect that they audience hears the full ensemble totally differently than I do because I am listening (and watching) for audible and body language clues for changes, stops, dynamic changes, etc. It's the nature of what I play and the small circle of musicians with whom I play. I am sure I would hear things differently and, perhaps, as clearly as you, in a different setting. It's all good.
I actually really heard it on playback. Just a kick and single overhead drum mic in this case, the rest of the band through the board blended with a room mic. I was surprised at how much of the drum sound just got lost. But yeah, every situation and room will be different so no rules.
 

Phantomlimb777

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Great video!

I have no preference when it comes to the utility of either suspension or direct to shell mounts, I can play both! I wish my Canopus had direct mounts to dry them up a bit, but not enough to drill them.

I will say, some of the members here are rude and pushy.
 

Matched Gripper

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You sidestepped the question Flatwins asked .
“ if not to increase sustain what are RIMS for ?”

You seem very sure of yourself , I’d like to know what RIMS are for ?
FYI, Flatwins directed his question in post #13 to ARGuy’s previous post #12 (in which ARGuy contends that suspension mounts are not intended to increase sustain), it was not directed to the OP, who apparently does think that suspension mounts are intended to increase sustain.
 

ARGuy

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Ok I’ll bite. If isolation (or suspension) mounts weren’t developed for sustain, what was the reason? I’ve used them, primarily on vintage kits for the 50s with antiquated mounts though I was never crazy about the appearance of them.
They were developed for resonance. RIMS stands for Resonance Isolation Mounting System. Sometimes people assume resonance and sustain are the same thing, but they're not.
 

ARGuy

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We'll I'm sorry if my interpretation or misinterpretation about RIMS mounts offends you or leaves you wanting something more. I can also acknowledge that you prefer the "before" sound over the "after" but I think we can all agree that's taste. I prefer the slight bit of choke you get from the DTS, so it's a better fit for me.

And to answer your last question. I can see that maybe an audience wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a Gretsch Energy vs Brooklyn, but for me a lot of that choice would come down to the hardware built into the kit. I'd feel much safer on stage with a kit that wasn't using cheaper/less ideal parts. Which is part of my decision to use the DTS over suspension style mounts.
Why would you think I was "offended"? Explaining a misconception and offering an opposing viewpoint doesn't mean I took it personally. As for suspension mounts being less ideal, in 40 years I've never had a RIMS mount fail.
In the end all that matters is that you're happy with your drums.
 

ARGuy

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The word "sustain" appears 3 times on Gauger's own RIMs page, so I think saying "they really don't know what they are talking about" is more than a little bit of a stretch.
Yes, it appears 3 times on that page. The first two times it is in quotes from drummers who bought RIMS, not from Gary Gauger himself. The third time it is in a sentence from Gary. He says "If the drum sounds fuller and deeper with more sustain . . . " meaning that sustain is a by-product of resonance.
Sometimes it helps to read instead of doing a word search.
 

Matched Gripper

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Yes, it appears 3 times on that page. The first two times it is in quotes from drummers who bought RIMS, not from Gary Gauger himself. The third time it is in a sentence from Gary. He says "If the drum sounds fuller and deeper with more sustain . . . " meaning that sustain is a by-product of resonance.
Sometimes it helps to read instead of doing a word search.
I think in the context of drums it’s a distinction without a difference.
 

bpaluzzi

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Yes, it appears 3 times on that page. The first two times it is in quotes from drummers who bought RIMS, not from Gary Gauger himself. The third time it is in a sentence from Gary. He says "If the drum sounds fuller and deeper with more sustain . . . " meaning that sustain is a by-product of resonance.
Sometimes it helps to read instead of doing a word search.
Oh, my bad. I totally forgot that end users can update the quotes that are selected to be on a company’s website. Since companies are well known for putting up quotes that they don’t believe in.

Give me a break.

bobsburgers-fox.gif
 

malonedrum

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With L-rods, there is already a bit of flex between the drum and the tom post. You could try varying the height of the tom on the L-mount for different degrees of flex and thus a bit more or less decay time. Depends on the weight of the drum. I remember a Premier Artist birch where this made a big difference.

DTS sounds as if you could market this as a new idea :D

I know that with older Pearl drums it is not the mount that is on the tom, or the tube inside it for that matter, but the connection to the bass that shortens the sound. I put the tom holder into a cymbal stand post and the sound opened up right away. Try until you find the sound that works for you and then use that method.
That’s actually a very interesting point and makes total sense but I doubt anybody would consider. Depending on how far you secure your bracket along the arm, the rigidity is less and less. Interesting thought for sure.
 

malonedrum

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Great video. Lovely kit! Did you tape the inside of the shells to avoid blow out or did you just drill on that piece of wood? I definitely hear a difference. I think I like the DTS sound better although I wish the second DTS tom was tuned a little bit lower.

I have added DTS Mounts before on various drums. I normally center it on the shell and was surprised you didn't try to get closer to the vent holes. Otherwise, nice job.
Yeah, I will typically add tape the both sides, but the backer board is really the best way to avoid the blowout in my opinion. Obviously it’s easy enough to just do all of them together

as for the center position. I’d prefer it to be centered, but since that was an option I like the ability to have them be the same distance from the top edge. Now this is totally type A, but if they are centered, and the drums are different depths, if you set them up side by side like mine both mounted off center of kick, the mounts will be slightly off from one another, assuming both drums are equal height. In this case it’d be a half inch off, so nothing major, but Im the crazy guy that lines up all my logos on heads, and wants everything looking perfect.

a lot of the older Gretsch drums from 70s, 80s and 90s I’ve seen have a DTS mount closer to the top rim than bottom, so it felt brand appropriate.
 

Tornado

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I think in the context of drums it’s a distinction without a difference.
I think there's a difference, but I also think it's hard to agree on what that difference is. In my mind, sustain is how long the heads are vibrating, and resonance is how long the shell vibrates along with the heads. Under those definitions (which may be my own), the drum could have a lot of sustain if the top and bottom heads are tuned to the same pitch without really exciting the shell. I think this sounds bad. A drum with a lot of resonance could be given a shorter sustain by putting a moon gel or tape on a head. I think this sounds good.
 

malonedrum

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CC! I’m glad
Well done video.

Sure suspension love you long time, but I prefer the DTS in both looks and sound.

But …okay… I have kits with both and when it gets loud I do bring the suspension kit.

(I remember coming back from a ten year gap in playing. Totally gone from drums and drumming. What’s the first thing I notice about drums? Virgin bass drums and suspension mounts. Everybody’s new obsession, not mine….)

The best part of this thread, though, is that it led me to your YouTube channel.

Got lost all up in there for at least an hour.

REALLY enjoy it.


Keep it up!
glad to hear you enjoyed the channel! I’m working really hard to create regular releases, and high quality content!
 

malonedrum

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FYI, Flatwins directed his question in post #13 to ARGuy’s previous post #12 (in which ARGuy contends that suspension mounts are not intended to increase sustain), it was not directed to the OP, who apparently does think that suspension mounts are intended to increase sustain.
This is some court room level explanation. So thorough and proper legal verbiage. Haha
 


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