Disassemble Ludwig hercules ( atlas?) hi hat stand

aldenyc2012

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About a year ago, I purchased an additional Ludwig Hi Hat stand. When I received it the first thing I noticed was an inability to adjust the tension dial. I couldn't determine what the problem was and thought it was just stuck. After some maneuvering, I managed to get the dial to turn but it doesn't appear to be adjusting the tension. I realize I can probably find someone to fix it but I don't really want to spend additional funds to that end. I'm wondering if this is something I could attempt to fix without destroying the stand. It seems to me that the veritcal tube can be removed from the base but I wouldn't begin to know how to go about doing that. Maybe I should just leave it alone as the stand does function.

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idrum4fun

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I've taken these apart many times and find it very easy, once you understand how it works!

Start by unscrewing the upper rod. Next, with a wrench or pliers, unscrew the large brass nut. This should be attached to the long rod that extends down the base and threads into the U-shaped bracket attached to the nylon link. Once removed, you can remove the footboard.

The adjusting wheel is held in by two 6-32 allen socket screws, spaced 180 degrees apart. Remove them, or back them out just enough to allow the adjusting mechanism to be withdrawn from the base. When reassembled, the allen screws go into the channel groove just enough to hold the mechanism in and keep it from falling out, but not so tight as to bind against the nylon channel. It's actually pretty easy and anyone with a reasonable amount of mechanical skills should be able to figure it out!

BTW, there are earlier versions where the nylon wheel is machined from steel. Ludwig saved money by changing it to nylon!

Once removed, you can see how the mechanism works. You can see the threaded metal piece in the fully up position, for maximum tension, and fully down, for minimum spring tension. There's a notch in the metal threaded piece (see picture) that rides in a matching ridge inside the tube. What usually happens is that if the wheel is adjusted way too loose, the threaded metal piece disengages from the nylon piece. You just have to apply a bit of downward force to the extension rod to get the threaded piece to start back into the nylon piece. Make sense?

I hope my pictures can show this mechanism more clearly. Oh, and the spring sits just above the metal threaded piece.

-Mark
 

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aldenyc2012

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Thank you .. when you say "Start by unscrewing the upper rod " .. I'm assuming you're referring to the upper rod that is normally dissasembled when I'm gigging and moving my kit from one place to another. I did notice the two "holes" separated on either side of the bottom post but I wasn't certain that they actually had allen screws. I'll see if I have the correct allen wrench. This will help a great deal.
 

thin shell

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Even when it is working correctly, the tension adjustment does next to nothing.

I always take Ludwig hihats apart the same way. Hold the U shaped yoke that the bottom rod screws into, wrapped with a thick rag or leather belt for protection, with some pliers and put a wrench on the brass coupling nut on the top of the bottom rod. You don't want to put any sideways stress on the nylon footboard link. I have always found that the brass coupling nut is tight enough of the rod to unscrew the rod from the yoke. Pull the rod and the sprint out. From there loosen the set screws as idrum4fun said and pull the adjuster out. It is a very simple design. This process is the same for the smaller spurlok hihats except they have no tension adjustment.
 

aldenyc2012

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Even when it is working correctly, the tension adjustment does next to nothing.

I always take Ludwig hihats apart the same way. Hold the U shaped yoke that the bottom rod screws into, wrapped with a thick rag or leather belt for protection, with some pliers and put a wrench on the brass coupling nut on the top of the bottom rod. You don't want to put any sideways stress on the nylon footboard link. I have always found that the brass coupling nut is tight enough of the rod to unscrew the rod from the yoke. Pull the rod and the sprint out. From there loosen the set screws as idrum4fun said and pull the adjuster out. It is a very simple design. This process is the same for the smaller spurlok hihats except they have no tension adjustment.
So if I understand you correctly, I need to be careful when applying pressure to the hex nut at the top of the lower rod that I don't put too much tension that will twist the foot board link and possibly snap or break it

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thin shell

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If you hold the yoke with pliers you won't be able to apply any twisting force to the nylon link.
 

idrum4fun

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As others have said, you do need to hold the yoke from turning so you don't ruin the nylon link. Some stands have both the metal wheel and metal link. Just be careful and you can get it all apart.

-Mark
 

idrum4fun

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Even when it is working correctly, the tension adjustment does next to nothing.
I have to disagree with this statement! After servicing quite a few of these stands, I find that the tension adjustment worked perfectly. Attached are pictures showing my 14" New Beat hats on the stand. Minimum tension on the first picture. The second picture shows how far down the foot board drops from the weight of the cymbal. The third picture shows the cymbals at maximum tension. Fourth picture shows the foot board all the way up. The final picture shows two extra adjustment mechanisms I have; one is fully extended for maximum spring tension and the other is fully retracted for minimum spring tension.

Hope these pictures help!

-Mark
 

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aldenyc2012

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Ok ... so I was able to disassemble. A few issues I encountered. 1. One of the set screws unscrewed without a great deal of effort but the other one was hardly budging.
When I completely pulled out the set screw I felt around inside and it appeared that the other set screw I couldn't remove did not feel like it was protruding into the channel. My assumption was that only one was possibly holding the tension wheel in place so I had to be satisfied with that. 2 When I unscrewed the metal insert, there was some resistance so I cleaned it, greased it and put it back but when I tightened it all the way down and placed the tension wheel back, the wheel was still very hard to turn. I removed the wheel again and backed out the metal insert and now the wheel turns with ease. 3. I didn't realize that metal insert has a groove on the top edge that has to mech with another alignment metal ridge that the insert rides along when the tension wheel is turned, thus compressing the spring on the lower rod. 4. Maybe this was obvious to others, but I realized it was easier to attach the upper rod when trying to reattach the rod to the foot plate as I can really push down exposing more of the threaded end.

Now as for what was said about the tension wheel either doing it's job or not .. I observed the same thing that idrum4fun noticed. The tension adjustment definatly works now as it didn't before I disassembled.

Thanks all for your help. Much appreciated!
 
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Rockin' Billy

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I've taken these apart many times and find it very easy, once you understand how it works!

Start by unscrewing the upper rod. Next, with a wrench or pliers, unscrew the large brass nut. This should be attached to the long rod that extends down the base and threads into the U-shaped bracket attached to the nylon link. Once removed, you can remove the footboard.

The adjusting wheel is held in by two 6-32 allen socket screws, spaced 180 degrees apart. Remove them, or back them out just enough to allow the adjusting mechanism to be withdrawn from the base. When reassembled, the allen screws go into the channel groove just enough to hold the mechanism in and keep it from falling out, but not so tight as to bind against the nylon channel. It's actually pretty easy and anyone with a reasonable amount of mechanical skills should be able to figure it out!

BTW, there are earlier versions where the nylon wheel is machined from steel. Ludwig saved money by changing it to nylon!

Once removed, you can see how the mechanism works. You can see the threaded metal piece in the fully up position, for maximum tension, and fully down, for minimum spring tension. There's a notch in the metal threaded piece (see picture) that rides in a matching ridge inside the tube. What usually happens is that if the wheel is adjusted way too loose, the threaded metal piece disengages from the nylon piece. You just have to apply a bit of downward force to the extension rod to get the threaded piece to start back into the nylon piece. Make sense?

I hope my pictures can show this mechanism more clearly. Oh, and the spring sits just above the metal threaded piece.

-Mark
Howdy Mark

Just a question for you to add to this thread if you don’t mind...
I disassembled the entire hit hat stand and when taking the lower rod out with spring, 2 Star Washers came out and I do not know where they were installed. I know the lower rod has 2 extruded tabs that stick out that keeps the spring in place. I installed 1 Star washer under bottom of spring but pull rod would bind so I took it out and seems to work fine without the 2 Star washers.
Do you know where they go assembly wise? Thanks in advance.
Russ
 

idrum4fun

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Howdy Mark

Just a question for you to add to this thread if you don’t mind...
I disassembled the entire hit hat stand and when taking the lower rod out with spring, 2 Star Washers came out and I do not know where they were installed. I know the lower rod has 2 extruded tabs that stick out that keeps the spring in place. I installed 1 Star washer under bottom of spring but pull rod would bind so I took it out and seems to work fine without the 2 Star washers.
Do you know where they go assembly wise? Thanks in advance.
Russ
Hi Russ!

I completely forgot about that star washer! If memory serves, I think there is only one, but sometimes a factory worker would install two of them! I can't even remember where it goes, but did find this picture showing it goes at the bottom. It's part P618AT. Hope this helps!

Now that I think about it, I believe it goes outside, in-between the connecting yoke and the adjusting wheel.

-Mark
 

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Rockin' Billy

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Howdy Mark

Thank you kindly for the reply!
I think it is just one. I thought two but only have one and thought I lost one. I did install that star washer at the bottom of the spring and that’s when it would bind. I took it out and it seems to be fine bench tested. I’ll take some more time and take a look in the bottom of tube and see what goes on. With reading the posts/information on this thread I’ll take it all apart again and check it out. Thanks again and take care.

Russ
 

idrum4fun

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Howdy Mark

Thank you kindly for the reply!
I think it is just one. I thought two but only have one and thought I lost one. I did install that star washer at the bottom of the spring and that’s when it would bind. I took it out and it seems to be fine bench tested. I’ll take some more time and take a look in the bottom of tube and see what goes on. With reading the posts/information on this thread I’ll take it all apart again and check it out. Thanks again and take care.

Russ
Russ,

If you look back at the pictures of my 1124-1 stand, you should see that I'm only using the rubber washer and not the star washer. Works perfectly without it!

-Mark
 

aldenyc2012

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Ok ... Again, I am very thankful for all that contributed to aiding me in dissembling the hi hat stand. I may have mentioned that one of the allen screws was very tight and when I backed it out, I was unable to back it in again and that's when the light bulb went off. idrum4fum was the first one to reply to my post and I quote:

"When reassembled, the allen screws go into the channel groove just enough to hold the mechanism in and keep it from falling out"

I recall now when I backed out the first allen screw, the tension knob dropped down .. hmmmm ... and when I put the stand back together again, I erroneously attributed the wheel still binding because the the metal insert being set at the deepest point in the tension wheel. It turns out that I had the allen screw too deep so when I backed it out, the wheel freely turned but was also coming loose and that's also when it dawned on me that the previous owner probably took the stand apart at some point and when he was unable to properly set the second allen screw, just set the other one so that teh tension wheel wouldn't drop. needless to say that I am really annoyed that this was not disclosed to me, but this wouldn't be the first time. So since ti don't routunely adjust the sping, I[ve set it to a comfortable setting and set the screw to keep the wheel in place .. yes ..much ado about nothing :)
 

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