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Ditching the hifi

studrum

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That's wild! I suspect that some of the folks around here would have been doing that....
 

noreastbob

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Stereo through speakers doesn't quite get it right either. In nature every sound we hear eminates from a single source and our brains infer the location of the source by the difference in what our two ears hear. The problem with a mono setup is all the sound eminates from a single source so there are no spatial cues to give us the location (except for that of the speaker) , no matter how hi the fi. Stereo adds another source but the glitch is (when listening to speakers) that both ears hear both speakers so it's not a perfect replication of natural sound (listening with headphones sidesteps this issue).

Carver had their Sonic Holography setup which used phase cancellation to correct for this (Polk Audio had a speaker system that worked on a similar principle, there may well be others) and the stereo "image" of such systems could be really amazing when set up correctly. I had that sort of setup in a previous house 30 years ago but have not had the right sort of room in subsequent living quarters, unfortunately.

Anyway, I still say Hifi because I love the old equipment. Just last night I ordered new caps for two Dynakit/Dynaco Mark IV monoblock tube amps I'm restoring. Hoping to find a vintage tube stereo preamp I can afford so I can put together a fully tube system. Not that I'll be able to hear the difference (my ears are shot) but it's still a fun endeavor and one of my major interests outside of drums.
Not to be a nit picker and/or maybe I didn't pay close enough attention to what you're saying, but are you saying that when I listen to a live performance I don't hear the saxophone player with both ears? Or that all the musicians are really playing in a singularity?
Regardless, I totally agree on larger quality systems. I'm enjoying by far the best set up in my life at 70 yo.
 
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K.O.

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Not to be a nit picker and/or maybe I didn't pay close enough attention to what you're saying, but are you saying that when I listen to a live performance I don't hear the saxophone player with both ears? Or that all the musicians are really playing in a singularity?
I totally agree on larger quality systems. I'm enjoying by far the best set up in my life at 70 yo.
I'm saying that during a live performance you hear each instrument with both ears but the actual sound is eminating from one point. The difference between the way our 2 ears hear that single sound is what gives us the ability to determine where the sound is coming from.
The issue with stereo setups is that the sound comes from two points ( 2 speakers). This does allow our brains to figure out a position within the stereo field based on how the mics were set up or how the instrument was panned during the original performance. It works well for that....but, it isn't perfect because your right ear also hears the left speaker and your left ear also hears the right speaker. This muddies up the image somewhat.

Does that make sense?

Jump ahead to the 3 minute mark

 
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A.TomicMorganic

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After over 50 years of playing for a living I am very hard of hearing. I don't need perfection. I get by with a Macintosh 1700 and a pair of JBl 100s with vinyl and CDs and radio. Nothing ever sounds as good as live music in a smallish room with decent acoustics. No producer or engineer deciding what we can hear and where in the mix.
 

Mapex Always

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Two channel in the morning!

Two channel in the afternoon!

Two channel in the evening!


The rule’s that must be followed , In my opinion , the 50/40/10 , the 50/30/20 , the 40/30/30 …

$10,000-$50,000 systems must spend 50% on the room 40% on speakers 10% on everything else. You can get a very nice system for this price point.

$100,000-$500,000 systems must spend 50% on the room 30% on the speakers 20% on everything else. The system becomes much more revealing up the chain , that chain has to be significantly superior to a $50,000 system. A top flight systems can be achieved at this price point.

My personal favorite, and where my obsession stands , the $1 million-$2 million system , must spend 40% on the room 30% on the speakers and 30% on everything else. The highest level of Fidelity is achieved only in the most properly fine-tuned systems at this price point. ALSO the easiest system for people to make sound BAD. Go figure.
 

Lazmo

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Wow, that's awesome.

And the OT is loving his JBL Charge 5.

We cover the spectrum here on DFO... thank Dog
 

noreastbob

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I'm saying that during a live performance you hear each instrument with both ears but the actual sound is eminating from one point. The difference between the way our 2 ears hear that single sound is what gives us the ability to determine where the sound is coming from.
The issue with stereo setups is that the sound comes from two points ( 2 speakers). This does allow our brains to figure out a position within the stereo field based on how the mics were set up or how the instrument was panned during the original performance. It works well for that....but, it isn't perfect because your right ear also hears the left speaker and your left ear also hears the right speaker. This muddies up the image somewhat.

Does that make sense?

Jump ahead to the 3 minute mark

Com'on... how can you say any sound comes from one point?
(Accept the big bang...doh!)
A point is defined as a dimensionless position. Any instrument I listen to, let alone a combination of instruments, is actually emanating from an infinite collection of points. But of course this is silly to a degree as I'm perhaps hung up on actual physics here.
I understand how we directionally locate sounds with two ears (and depth/proportion/spatiality with two eyes) but to say headphones are better-more REAL than speakers is to confuse stereo imaging with reality.
Stereo is cool as heck but it's just a hi-fi trick to IMITATE reality without the live band coming to your house and tracking dirt into the music listening room and asking for refreshments and to use your bathroom.
 

K.O.

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Com'on... how can you say any sound comes from one point?
(Accept the big bang...doh!)
A point is defined as a dimensionless position. Any instrument I listen to, let alone a combination of instruments, is actually emanating from an infinite collection of points. But of course this is silly to a degree as I'm perhaps hung up on actual physics here.
I understand how we directionally locate sounds with two ears (and depth/proportion/spatiality with two eyes) but to say headphones are better-more REAL than speakers is to confuse stereo imaging with reality.
Stereo is cool as heck but it's just a hi-fi trick to IMITATE reality without the live band coming to your house and tracking dirt into the music listening room and asking for refreshments and to use your bathroom.

Well I wasn't using "point" in a scientific sense but perhaps "source" would have been a more apt word.

All I can say is that if you can hear stereo played thru a system with sonic holography or a similar setup, from a properly set up listening position in a room that is also properly setup the result is startling. If you close your eyes you'd swear there was a bunch of musicians set up in front of you. You need the right room, the right equipment, and the right recordings but, if it all comes together, the result can be pretty amazing compared to regular stereo. Whether it's worth all that bother is another thing. I still have the equipment but no longer have the right space to use it in.
 

hsosdrum

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Maybe these illustrations from Snow's seminal 1953 paper "Basic Principles of Stereophonic Sound" can clear up things. For 2-channel stereo, just imagine the bottom illustration without the center microphone, electronics channel and speaker — each ear still receives 2 pulses instead of the single pulse it receives in real-life listening or in the top illustration.

Basic-Principles-of-Stereophonic-Sound.jpg
 


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