Do Bop kits lose their luster?

[CC Cirillo]

I’ve mostly owned 22 and 20 inch bass drums. Just discovered 18s a few years ago. I have four kits and two now are 18 inch kicks.

For the last year my main recording bass drum is an 18x12 Remo marching drum I repurposed for cheap because that size was pretty hard to find. I can get it low and full. It’s working for me.

I’m not playing jazz, but I’m not playing with a guy on a Stihl and a Husqvarna either.

Live though I’m probably not bringing anything smaller than a 20.

 

[JimmyM]

As a bassist, I really couldn’t care less what someone else uses as long as they play well and have what the music needs. The last two drummers in the blues band I’m in both use 18s on most of our gigs and they sound fine to me. One tunes up a little higher than I like but not annoyingly high. So I don’t really want smaller than a 20 for me, but as always, I don’t care what anyone else uses, and if it doesn’t sound good, I’m not blaming the drums

 

[TheDrummerFromAmsterdam]

That's my point. Why are people selling them if they are so "wonderful"? I dunno, I just don't consider an 18" a bass drum. It's like a guitar player showing up with a ukulele. Personal pref I guess. I think deep down it's more about the schlep or a hipster fad.

I always giggle inside when someone says things like a 16” or 18” “packs a punch”, or “sounds/feels basically the same as a 22”.

 

[pwc1141]

I have a "bop" kit but don't think of it that way. It can play any genre and, depending on tuning, the 18" bass drum can move curtains at 50 feet if I want it to. To each his own.

 

[TheDrummerFromAmsterdam]

You said jizz...heh heh...

In this case it was a reference to Star Wars

 

[stevesmithfan]

I don’t care for Be Bop drum sets.

 

[drums1225]

I've had my Modern Drum Shop maple bop kit since 1996 and bought it specifically because I was studying and playing a lot of jazz and needed authentic sounds that my rock sized kits could not cover. When I'm playing funk, I refer to it as my "Breakbeat Kit" (long before Questlove's Ludwig kits).

The 18" bass drum is my favorite part of the kit, by far. I play it pretty wide open with only a felt strip on the batter side coated Ambassador, and an un-muffled Ebony Amb reso with no port. I tune the reso fairly high, leave it there, and retune the batter head based on the style I'm playing—med to med/hi for jazz and med/low to low for groove stuff. It fills the room with a big round tone and when I need more attack and less boom, I tune the batter low. Somehow, this works well without changing the tuning of the reso.

 

[1988fxlr]

I think the regular trading in recent bop kits, and boutique snares for that matter, is more a reflection of the demographics buying them than any reflection on the utility or desirability of the drums themselves.

It seems most of the people trading bop kits are older and more financially stable and already own other kits, so you see them selling them on to try out another builder or set up more so than you do more standard setups

 

[GretschMan61]

While I won't weigh in on the 18" base drum itself ( I have tried SO hard to like them but just don't care for anything smaller than a 20"), I do understand your point. I have wondered the very same thing about several of the boutique and custom drums that have had been popular on the boards. I will use Summit as an example... we have bought a LOT of Summit snares bewteen us, and a lot of them seem to get relisted back on the board. Makes me wonder about the thought process there as well.

My first pro level kit was an 18/12/14 Gretsch kit . I have had a few other 18” bass drum kits over the years but they just don’t do it for me . Now 20” bass drums I love and they will always be my favourite size . The 18” bass drum kits I have owned have been a tough sell as the market is much smaller for them than that of larger bass drums .

 

[s1212z]

I either go 12/14/BD-15 or 10/12/14/BD-20

I was initially concerned I wouldn't get the interval I want from a 14 FT to a 15 BD but it does great. I got the 15 BD for basically two reasons: 1) I wanted to the bop sound and I especially like how the 15 sounds with an acoustic bass, and I can play wide open very easily. And compared to a cranked 18", I rather have my 15" and 2) I can carry my entire kit in one trip plus no micro/baby toms, still wanted the regular top kit. For the body and punch, I'll take out my 20....arguable an 18" would had been the middle ground but the portability factor is a priority for me and each size has their own behavior, that is sure and really like what I have now.

 

[slow larry]

Bop kits are very popular in situations where they work, but some go even smaller. There is a venue I play at every month or two where I'd struggle to fit a larger kit in the space at all. We're shoved up into what used to be the display window area at the front of a bar that used to be a dress shop. I saw a guy at that same spot with one of those little club-jam kits 16/13/10 with one crash/ride and a 12" hihat. He made it work. I've yet to actually see someone use a cocktail kit in a live situation; I've only ever seen older ones that people own as a curiosity or as a collector's kit. I see Tama makes a modern one though, it looks interesting at least. I wonder how you'd mic it.

 

[mtarrani]

I still don't understand this constant talk of using bop kits for quieter venues...the toms and snare are the same size as rock kits. The only difference is the smaller bass drum. Not to mention that tuning drums at high tension makes them louder. I don't get it.

Not always. I have a few (Tama) bop kits with 10 inch rack tom/13 inch fT, and 12 to 13 inch snare drums. The reason for using them in SMALLER (& quieter) venues is not necessarily lower sound but fitting cramped spaces. I can easily play at a lower volume with bigger kits, even rock kits. In fact I was forced to use a backline 22" rock configuration two days ago in a QUIET (but spacious) room and had no problem pulling it off.

 

[DrumPhil]

Really... I just went every original post of every bop kit for sale and not one said that. You have any links?

Just so you know, I'm not trying to argue about this. I was recalling various pieces of information, and sometimes we don't remember quite right. Anyway, you asked for links, which is a fair question. These are all pretty recent.

Here's one where the seller mentions having several kits besides what he's selling.

Canopus RFM bop kit, walnut oil finish, brass lugs, excellent condition

I seem to own 2 Canopus kits and a Gretsch kit. Believe it or not, that is more than I need at the moment, so here is a nice opportunity for one of you good peeps. CANOPUS RFM 12/14/18 brass lugs walnut oil finish excellent condition Wide tuning range, solid maple shells, warm sound...

www.drumforum.org

Here's one where the seller sold more than one bop kit, so he had multiple.

Canopus RFM and Yaiba Bop Kits

Currently on Reverb as well, but offered at a discount here: $2750 shipped CONUS RFM: 18/12/14 fantastic Canopus endorser kit, WMP wrap, upgraded custom Stellar bass hoops and rarely seen chrome plated brass lugs. A few marks on the wrap as seen in pictures. Factory tom mount in kick drum...

www.drumforum.org

This seller had separate threads for both INDe and Canopus bop kits. I also saw video of him playing different bop kits than those being sold.

Inde Bop kit with tom mount - PRICE REDUCED

Just a few months old. A little scuff on the 12, some wear on the heads, otherwise as new. Great little kit - punches above it's weight. 8x12, 14x14, 12x18. And the blue stain really pops. $1450 $1350 + shipping

www.drumforum.org

Again, it's not an argument that we need to win or lose. I was just sharing information, as is my habit. Best wishes to you!

 

[cribbon]

Not always. I have a few (Tama) bop kits with 10 inch rack tom/13 inch fT, and 12 to 13 inch snare drums. The reason for using them in SMALLER (& quieter) venues is not necessarily lower sound but fitting cramped spaces. I can easily play at a lower volume with bigger kits, even rock kits. In fact I was forced to use a backline 22" rock configuration two days ago in a QUIET (but spacious) room and had no problem pulling it off.

True; Joe Morello could and did play his Ludwig Super Classic (22k/13,16f) in a piano trio with Marian McPartland and with Brubeck at pp level with no problem - it's down to the skill of the drummer.

That said, I use my Sonor jungle kit (16k/10,13f) in a jazz (but not bop) combo playing wine bars and the like and also on rock gigs with either just the kick or the entire kit mic'ed, venue & band depending and no one has a problem with it in either band/situation. The smaller size does help in tight spots (a Pearl Rhythm Traveler also works well in cramped quarters). I also use a Tama bop (18k/12,14f) in both those same situations.

 

[TheDrummerFromAmsterdam]

I've yet to actually see someone use a cocktail kit in a live situation; I've only ever seen older ones that people own as a curiosity or as a collector's kit. I see Tama makes a modern one though, it looks interesting at least. I wonder how you'd mic it.

 

[T_Weaves]

Just so you know, I'm not trying to argue about this. I was recalling various pieces of information, and sometimes we don't remember quite right. Anyway, you asked for links, which is a fair question. These are all pretty recent.

Here's one where the seller mentions having several kits besides what he's selling.

Canopus RFM bop kit, walnut oil finish, brass lugs, excellent condition

I seem to own 2 Canopus kits and a Gretsch kit. Believe it or not, that is more than I need at the moment, so here is a nice opportunity for one of you good peeps. CANOPUS RFM 12/14/18 brass lugs walnut oil finish excellent condition Wide tuning range, solid maple shells, warm sound...

www.drumforum.org

Here's one where the seller sold more than one bop kit, so he had multiple.

Canopus RFM and Yaiba Bop Kits

Currently on Reverb as well, but offered at a discount here: $2750 shipped CONUS RFM: 18/12/14 fantastic Canopus endorser kit, WMP wrap, upgraded custom Stellar bass hoops and rarely seen chrome plated brass lugs. A few marks on the wrap as seen in pictures. Factory tom mount in kick drum...

www.drumforum.org

This seller had separate threads for both INDe and Canopus bop kits. I also saw video of him playing different bop kits than those being sold.

Inde Bop kit with tom mount - PRICE REDUCED

Just a few months old. A little scuff on the 12, some wear on the heads, otherwise as new. Great little kit - punches above it's weight. 8x12, 14x14, 12x18. And the blue stain really pops. $1450 $1350 + shipping

www.drumforum.org

Again, it's not an argument that we need to win or lose. I was just sharing information, as is my habit. Best wishes to you!

Fair enough, I didn't mean to come off as argumentative either. Hey I'm learning about smaller bass drums with all these responses!

 

[trynberg]

Not always. I have a few (Tama) bop kits with 10 inch rack tom/13 inch fT, and 12 to 13 inch snare drums. The reason for using them in SMALLER (& quieter) venues is not necessarily lower sound but fitting cramped spaces. I can easily play at a lower volume with bigger kits, even rock kits. In fact I was forced to use a backline 22" rock configuration two days ago in a QUIET (but spacious) room and had no problem pulling it off.

I would call those micro-kits, not bop (which to me, means 12x8, 14x14, 18x14).

The main problem I have with tight stages is the depth of the kit, not the width. I don't see that an 18x14 bass drum saves much footprint over a 22x14. My Remo Legero kit is 10,13,16, 22 but has a smaller footprint than a typical bop kit because the bass drum is only 6" deep.

 

[dingaling]

Bop kits suck. They aren’t worth anything. But don’t throw them away. To be nice, I’ll take them off your hands for free and that will save you space and the anger of just having to look at them. Especially any old round badge Gretsch or Sonor phonic bop kits. PM me and we can work out details.

 

[TPC]

A quick read of the first three pages of the drums for sale thread, I see 8 bop sets and 13 sets of other sizes. (Why are those other 13 guys selling? Bass drum too big? Tired of bringing a Les Paul to an acoustic gig?)

 

[mtarrani]

I would call those micro-kits, not bop (which to me, means 12x8, 14x14, 18x14).

The main problem I have with tight stages is the depth of the kit, not the width. I don't see that an 18x14 bass drum saves much footprint over a 22x14. My Remo Legero kit is 10,13,16, 22 but has a smaller footprint than a typical bop kit because the bass drum is only 6" deep.

The Tama kits (and one Yamaha) have 8" deep bass drums. Real small footprint. Smaller than any of the four micro kits that I own. In fact my Tama mini jam takes up less real estate than my Odery sub micro with a 14" bass drum. My micro kits, with one exception, have 12" deep bass drums (the exception has a 14" deep one.) That said, I can play 22 down to zero bass drums, and with the bop, micro and sub kits I can play within my style easily. Heck, I did 1500 gigs with just a hi-hat and snare. Examples here:

From there a bop kit is a BIG kit for me.