Do I Want A Ludwig Jazz Fest?

[tbird8450]

I sat down to play the snare again last night and noticed that the tuning was off a bit. I tried getting it straightened out and encountered an oddity that I hadn't encountered before.

In looking down at the drum, if I hit it anywhere between 7 and 11 o'clock, the sound of the shell would fall in pitch. If I hit it between 1 and 5 o'clock, the sound of the shell would rise in pitch. It wasn't much of an issue if I was just playing a backbeat, but as soon as I'd hit a roll on the snare it sounded bad. I tried working the lugs in a variety of ways and couldn't tune it out. I pulled off both heads, reseated, tried again...same thing.

Eventually I worked it out. I cranked the bejesus out of the lug at 11 o'clock and all of a sudden the shell pitched up no matter where I hit the drum. I then proceeded to tune it the rest of the way and all was well and it sounded fantastic.

This may not be a big deal, although I wonder if it would impact my ability to tune it low with that one lug being super tight. Why might this have happened? Maybe it's just a quirk of the thin Fiberskyn head, or maybe it or the hoop is out of round? Or could the shell itself be warped or misshapen in some way? At this point I'm more curious than anything.

 

[fitzsy]

I have this. It’s great.

 

[JDA]

It's interesting to ponder- you'd think an 8L wood Ludwig snare- would be a common (catalog) item- and they'd be "everywhere"..
but there were only 2 (??) the Super Classic and Jazz Festival.... not as common as one would think (?) hmm different than Gretsch marketing (?)...

It's like (become) a special 'search and recover" mission to acquire
for what seems -on the surface- such a common spec drum ??!

"they needed an 8L Pioneer" : D (?

 

[wflkurt]

I would love to own one of the new OBP jazzfests but it's always a gamble on the finish. Some OBP look better than others and and I would want it to match my 1968 super classic. last thing I need is another drum right now though. My 2011 Mac is getting too old for recording and it looks like I may need to upgrade that sooner than later.

 

[K.O.]

It's interesting to ponder- you'd think an 8L wood Ludwig snare- would be a common (catalog) item- and they'd be "everywhere"..
but there were only 2 (??) the Super Classic and Jazz Festival.... not as common as one would think (?) hmm different than Gretsch marketing (?)...

It's like (become) a special 'search and recover" mission to acquire
for what seems -on the surface- such a common spec drum ??!

"they needed an 8L Pioneer" : D (?

There's a lot of Jazz Fests out there, although not huge numbers in oyster black. Ludwig really pushed the Supra though (probably more profit margin in metal shells) with that being the standard snare with all the catalog outfits (after 1965 or so). Since the Supra was the default snare drum it was the one that most new drummers (or their parents) bought.
The Pioneer is really a six lug version of the Jazz Fest. It was the "student" drum of choice but again was superceded by a metal drum when the acrolite came along in 62-63.

 

[K.O.]

I would love to own one of the new OBP jazzfests but it's always a gamble on the finish. Some OBP look better than others and and I would want it to match my 1968 super classic. last thing I need is another drum right now though. My 2011 Mac is getting too old for recording and it looks like I may need to upgrade that sooner than later.

It really is a crap shoot on the Oyster Black. Some pieces are almost a dead ringer for the vintage stuff and others are way off. I've seen both.

I lucked out incredibly on the drum I got as far as the wrap. I think the odds are stacked against you as far as getting a "good" one from a random order. I was very surprised to be so lucky. Mine was sold as a "demo" at quite bit lower than MAP as a BIN on ebay from Interstate Music during their dying days. The auction had the "stock" photo rather than an actual picture of the drum for sale. I figured all those things stacked the deck against me but took a chance and did well. No evidence the drum had ever been used.

 

[JDA]

The Pioneer is really a six lug version of the Jazz Fest. It was the "student" drum of choice but again was superceded by a metal drum when the acrolite came along in 62-63.

interesting tho, the Pioneer (and the WFL name Supreme Concert~ before it` did come in an 8L. version...but in 6.5x14/15 and 8X15 only (that's correct right..

what was the 5 or 5.5 x 14 8L (wood) called in WFL days..
(i could look it up..)
Ah Buddy Rich. Super Classic,.
1948
and the Deluxe (standard) 5x14 with the flat Imperials..

http://vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_snaredrums/1948-ludwig-snare-drums-1.jpg

s'whew.
they sure made a fuss with the 8L 5/5.5X14 Wood shell snare.
Rightly So. It's special. but not special ; ) or it was and still is

 

[K.O.]

Just for fun, here's my new Legacy OBP Jazz Festival over my (circa 1966) original.

I did replace the new P-88 throw off on the new drum with a P-83 . I think it's a pretty safe bet that Ludwig got the idea to do these drums from Gary Astridge's 15 Ringo Jazz festival Re-issues that he sold for $30K apiece. These aren't that different, really, other than not being signed by Ringo.

and here is an older photo from before I had the two above of an earlier Ludwig JF re-issue with a Classic Maple shell (bottom drum), a rewrap I did myself (vintage 3 ply shell) with wrap from Precision (top drum) and my 60's OBP Pioneer (middle).

I still have all these drums so my OBP snare needs are pretty well covered.

On the other end of the spectrum here's an example of one of the new drums where the wrap isn't as "spot on" as one might hope...

 

[AtlantaDrumGuy]

I’d save money with a pioneer. Had a few JF snares and sold them. Would rather play a modern well made wood snare. Which to me is fine with a vintage kit.

 

[Ludwigboy]

I would love to own one of the new OBP jazzfests but it's always a gamble on the finish. Some OBP look better than others and and I would want it to match my 1968 super classic. last thing I need is another drum right now though. My 2011 Mac is getting too old for recording and it looks like I may need to upgrade that sooner than later.

I feel the same way as you, Kurt, I want it to match my OBP sets but a person really is taking a chance to purchase a new OBP JazzFest unless you see it in person.

As well, I can't justify shelling out a couple thousand dollars or more for a real vintage Jazz Fest in oyster black pearl....

I am confident in time that that the wrap companies will get a more accurate wrap made that will eventually match the vintage look of oyster black (and other finishes for that matter)... and a rewrapped Rocker will do me fine.

In the meantime, my Pioneer has the "look", does the job and is considerable cheaper ... but this is just my opinion.

 

[Ludwigboy]

I found a new Jazz Fest on Amazon for the same price as the B stock mentioned above. I thought it might be a mistake, but Amazon has always made good on any issues, so I bought it. The drum arrived yesterday and...it's the real deal, brand new and a beauty.

I swapped heads (Diplomat Fiberskyn top / clear Ambassador bottom) and played for about 45 minutes at a couple different tunings. It's just what I was hoping for in terms of giving me a bit of a different feel, vibe, and sound than my other snares. I'm looking forward to spending on lot more time with it.

Love to see a photo of the wrap on your new Jazz Fest!

 

[K.O.]

I feel the same way as you, Kurt, I want it to match my OBP sets but a person really is taking a chance to purchase a new OBP JazzFest unless you see it in person.

As well, I can't justify shelling out a couple thousand dollars or more for a real vintage Jazz Fest in oyster black pearl....

I am confident in time that that the wrap companies will get a more accurate wrap made that will eventually match the vintage look of oyster black (and other finishes for that matter)... and a rewrapped Rocker will do me fine.

In the meantime, my Pioneer has the "look", does the job and is considerable cheaper ... but this is just my opinion.

They've been doing the vintage oyster black wrap for about 25 years now so I'm not sure that they'll get any better at it. The stuff varies so much from batch to batch and even sheet to sheet. There is a handmade aspect to the stuff that doesn't lend itself to total repeatability. The old stuff had the same variation but apparently not to the same degree.
One other option is Bumwrap. Their wrap always looks the same because it is essentially a photograph of a good version of the wrap. As such it lacks the 3D depth of the original, but from a foot away it looks right on. Wflkurt has a snare he redid in that and it looks really good.

I was headed down that road myself and ready to give the BW a try when I got the chance to buy the real one. After 20 years of trying to find one I could afford I finally shelled out $2K for one from a friend who had three of them and was willing to let one go. Even ones in so so condition went for around that much on ebay.

At one time (pre internet) the scuttlebutt was that Ludwig had made less than 200 Jazzfests in oyster black. The real number is obviously much higher but they only turn up a few at any given time so demand almost always outstrips supply enough that the price stays up there.

If you can find one of the re-issues that is wearing a good piece of the wrap that is the best way to go. But buying one blind or to order is pretty risky given the variations in the wrap and Ludwig's apparent unwillingness to sort the dead on stuff from the not so much variety. I suppose they have to take what their supplier sends and aren't about to "eat" the bad sheets. That's just business.

But with good wrap the re-issue is one sweet drum and built better than any of the originals.

Maybe if Kurt sees this he will post a picture or two of his drum.

 

[Ludwigboy]

They've been doing the vintage oyster black wrap for about 25 years now so I'm not sure that they'll get any better at it. The stuff varies so much from batch to batch and even sheet to sheet. There is a handmade aspect to the stuff that doesn't lend itself to total repeatability. The old stuff had the same variation but apparently not to the same degree.
One other option is Bumwrap. Their wrap always looks the same because it is essentially a photograph of a good version of the wrap. As such it lacks the 3D depth of the original, but from a foot away it looks right on. Wflkurt has a snare he redid in that and it looks really good.

I was headed down that road myself and ready to give the BW a try when I got the chance to buy the real one. After 20 years of trying to find one I could afford I finally shelled out $2K for one from a friend who had three of them and was willing to let one go. Even ones in so so condition went for around that much on ebay.

At one time (pre internet) the scuttlebutt was that Ludwig had made less than 200 Jazzfests in oyster black. The real number is obviously much higher but they only turn up a few at any given time so demand almost always outstrips supply enough that the price stays up there.

If you can find one of the re-issues that is wearing a good piece of the wrap that is the best way to go. But buying one blind or to order is pretty risky given the variations in the wrap and Ludwig's apparent unwillingness to sort the dead on stuff from the not so much variety. I suppose they have to take what their supplier sends and aren't about to "eat" the bad sheets. That's just business.

But with good wrap the re-issue is one sweet drum and built better than any of the originals.

Maybe if Kurt sees this he will post a picture or two of his drum.

You make some good points but I am willing to wait for the wraps to improve in time or perhaps pick up a Legacy used......
From the cost of the originals, I feel that the wrap is the way to go or get a Pioneer for the time being...... thanks for sharing the comparison photos of your drums
Love to see Kurts drum also....

 

[tbird8450]

Love to see a photo of the wrap on your new Jazz Fest!

Sure...

 

[Ludwigboy]

Sure... View attachment 523298

Thanks for sharing! It looks great....enjoy!

 

[richardh253]

I recommend the WFL III Drums wood snare -

 

[K.O.]

You make some good points but I am willing to wait for the wraps to improve in time or perhaps pick up a Legacy used......
From the cost of the originals, I feel that the wrap is the way to go or get a Pioneer for the time being...... thanks for sharing the comparison photos of your drums
Love to see Kurts drum also....

That's what I did. I bought a Pioneer in OBP for $650. That was about 20 years ago. Nowadays they tend to be a $1k drum as "the poor man's Ringo snare". That's a lot for a Pioneer but cheap compared to the similar Jazzfest.

 

[JDA]

remember. match them up with your Golden Slumbers blonde 5 pc (then won't have to concern about "matching"... : D
and you'll still be in authentic Starkey territory
why worry a.e. Neuman
pps; how else you going to play The End, Come Together or Something.
On a four-piece? two toms? come on man!

 

[KeenAmateur]

Not sure if this takes anyone's interest, think it's about $810 for my friends across the pond (plus shipping & whatever import duty you're subject to on goods from EU).

Ludwig Snare/Snare Jazz Festival Black Oyster Vintage 60s Batteries Drum | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Ludwig Snare/Snare Jazz Festival Black Oyster Vintage 60s Batteries Drum at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

Looks like offers are possible too... looks like someone's changed the muffler out at some point though - thinking those are quite possibly original NOB hoops and lugs though, maybe I should have kept this to myself

 

[KeenAmateur]

However, if anyone of you kind and knowledgeable people could point me in the direction of where I might begin to try to find a set of Jazz Fest NOB hoops of my own, I'd be eternally grateful. I have a lovely pre-serial KB in a remarkably intact black/gold duco. It has it's NOB lugs, but someone robbed the brass hoops before the drum and I met and replaced them with the later steel jobbies. I'd love to right the wrong.

Also, it has no muffler at all - no hole for it either. Anyone know why that might be? It also has a WFL butt-plate, but Ludwig strainer. Were they still using up surplus WFL stamped hardware even after the transition era do you think?