Do you use alternate sticking when you can’t quite do what was originally done.

[DanRH]

For example, my band recently learned Georgy Porgy where Porcaro is playing 16ths with one hand on the hats at 96 bpm. I can’t keep it up throughout the whole song yet, so I’m playing 16ths with two hands. Ugg, hate to do it but a boys got to do what he’s got to do….

Here's a link of us playing it last week.

http://danhertlein.com/DDR/GeorgyPorgyCasaOrozco04222022.mp3

 

[kallen49]

Of course I do. At a gig nobody listening cares about the sticking but they will notice if you mess up the tune...

 

[tnsquint1]

For example, my band recently learned Georgy Porgy where Porcaro is playing 16ths with one hand on the hats at 96 bpm. I can’t keep it up throughout the whole song yet, so I’m playing 16ths with two hands. Ugg, hate to do it but a boys got yo do what he’s got to do….

As a percussion professor of mine always said; “with percussion, if it works, do it.”

That said, if I were playing that tune, there is a marked difference in the feel of playing with one hand vs. two. I think I would play “1_&a” with the right hand and leave out the e. You could emphasize the downbeats to give it that forward motion feel and not wear yourself out. I would argue it’s better to leave out four “e”s per bar than dropping the two and four off the hat as that is what helps to create that forward tension. I tend to think that might be a better approximation of the feel which, while very smooth, is still quite aggressive. Of course, few would ever know the difference and I am sure you make the double handed approach sound great

 

[DanRH]

As a percussion professor of mine always said; “with percussion, if it works, do it.”

That said, if I were playing that tune, there is a marked difference in the feel of playing with one hand vs. two. I think I would play “1_&a” with the right hand and leave out the e. You could emphasize the downbeats to give it that forward motion feel and not wear yourself out. I would argue it’s better to leave out four “e”s per bar than dropping the two and four off the hat as that is what helps to create that forward tension. I tend to think that might be a better approximation of the feel which, while very smooth, is still quite aggressive. Of course, few would ever know the difference and I am sure you make the double handed approach sound great

I try. My bass player, who’s a monster prefers one handed with I go to when it breaks down to cross sticking. I’ll get it eventually. I know I used to be able to hold at 100 but I’m getting old I guess. Makes you really appreciate Nate…

 

[cochlea]

This is an interesting question that I've contemplated many times. I've had difficulty, throughout my years of playing, keeping up with swift tempo 16ths on the hi-hat. I've never mastered being able to make my two-handed playing sound the same as playing with one hand. There is definitely an audible difference which frustrates me despite my efforts to work on this over the years. The first song I remember this coming to light was "Nights on Broadway" by the Bee Gees. I finally was able to build up enough stamina to play it all the way through with one hand.

 

[cornelius]

Will this help? If you're playing hand to hand 16ths on the hi hats, after the "a" of one and three, also play two and four on the hi hats with your left hand when your right hand hits the snare. This way you're not leaving out any notes on the hi hats.

 

[TonyVazquez]

In my younger years I was able to
play that way.
Nowadays I'll be lucky if I can play
a full measure of 16ths single-handedly.
For that I have to use both hands.

As the sayings go,
Stay in your lane, sing in your range.
Play what you Can and make it count,
rather than screwing up trying to
play something fancy or sophisticated
that might cause fatigue to set in.
Sometimes you gotta play to Survive
the performance.

 

[backtodrum]

I have too much arthritis in my hands any more to play at that speed for that long single handed anymore. At my age I just scrap the song and move on. There are too many good songs out there to get too hung up on that stuff anymore. I don't have enough grip strength to hold the stick at that speed for extended periods of time. It is just a fact of life. No one cares in the audience. They just want what you do play to sound good. I already go home and ice my hands down after a gig so that I can use my hands at all the next day. I'm afraid retirement from drums is coming faster than I care to admit. If I don't think about it, it won't happen....

 

[backtodrum]

In my younger years I was able to
play that way.
Nowadays I'll be lucky if I can play
a full measure of 16ths single-handedly.
For that I have to use both hands.

As the sayings go,
Stay in your lane, sing in your range.
Play what you Can and make it count,
rather than screwing up trying to
play something fancy or sophisticated
that might cause fatigue to set in.
Sometimes you gotta play to Survive
the performance.

Well said!

 

[DrFrankCoco]

If it sounds good it is good.

 

[TonyVazquez]

I have too much arthritis in my hands any more to play at that speed for that long single handed anymore. At my age I just scrap the song and move on. There are too many good songs out there to get too hung up on that stuff anymore. I don't have enough grip strength to hold the stick at that speed for extended periods of time. It is just a fact of life. No one cares in the audience. They just want what you do play to sound good. I already go home and ice my hands down after a gig so that I can use my hands at all the next day. I'm afraid retirement from drums is coming faster than I care to admit. If I don't think about it, it won't happen....

Don't give up. If you can milk your mileage, by all means go for it.
I know the feels, I gave up playing bass
in a deathmetal band back in 2008
because of carpal tunnel syndrome
and a ganglion cyst in my strum hand.

I'm almost 57, still drumming as though
I were 20. I've been this way since I
joined my current band as their drummer
3 years ago and I still keep pushing myself.
I'm thankful that I am not experiencing
any pain in my hands and wrists,
because I wrap my sticks with double-sided tape to keep my grip so I can
fly through my kit as fast and hard
as I want.

That's me behind another drummer's
kit in this video of a recent gig...

Try the grip tape thing like I'm doing.
Hopefully that idea will help.
Don't give up so soon!

 

[Tdipaul]

When i saw the title of this thread, the Doobie's song "I Keep Forgettin" came to mind. It is Porcaro as well. It wont have the same feel using two hands but it will work. Only the good/knowledgeable drummers in the audience would know you are cheating!

 

[yetanotherdrummer]

I have too much arthritis in my hands any more to play at that speed for that long single handed anymore. At my age I just scrap the song and move on. There are too many good songs out there to get too hung up on that stuff anymore. I don't have enough grip strength to hold the stick at that speed for extended periods of time. It is just a fact of life. No one cares in the audience. They just want what you do play to sound good. I already go home and ice my hands down after a gig so that I can use my hands at all the next day. I'm afraid retirement from drums is coming faster than I care to admit. If I don't think about it, it won't happen....

Same deal here. For a lot of songs I just go for 8th or even quarter notes. You can't do what you can't do.

It's much more enjoyable to play without pain that it is to try to force what you can't do anymore.

 

[Christopher]

If you watch Jeff play fast 16ths in his instructional video, he’s not playing the hats that hard. Kick and snare are way louder. I think that’s part of his feel and tone. Not sure how hard you’re going at them, but try easing up a little and see. I’ve found it’s a lot easier that way.

 

[Roch]

In my younger years I was able to
play that way.
Nowadays I'll be lucky if I can play
a full measure of 16ths single-handedly.
For that I have to use both hands.

As the sayings go,
Stay in your lane, sing in your range.
Play what you Can and make it count,
rather than screwing up trying to
play something fancy or sophisticated
that might cause fatigue to set in.
Sometimes you gotta play to Survive
the performance.

Agree..Don't show them what you don't know..

 

[TonyVazquez]

When i saw the title of this thread, the Doobie's song "I Keep Forgettin" came to mind. It is Porcaro as well. It wont have the same feel using two hands but it will work. Only the good/knowledgeable drummers in the audience would know you are cheating!

At this point in my life I just play to entertain, not to satisfy specific audience members expectations.
So, whether I as a drummer am "cheating" or not is no priority for me to be concerned with, because if I go up on stage thinking that way it ruins my psyche and interferes with my performance.
And I don't mean that in a bad way.

The audience members are free to think whatever they want.
Just by looking at me, as old as I am, as old as I look, they can tell that they won't have to expect much from me. And that is when I like to surprise them.
And by the end of my set the skeptics become my friends, lol.

I've always been wowed by awesome drummers, therefore I wanna give that back, and pass it forward...
I'm not the greatest drummer ever,
but I won't settle for less than my best.
My job as a drummer is to deliver a good show and give spectators their money's worth. I'll stop at nothing to fulfill this.

 

[Topsy Turvy]

I have the same issue as Dan- in terms of not being able to play fast one-handed 16th notes. Again, like Dan, I hate doing the two-handed thing or playing quarters/eight notes. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve one’s speed/stamina with one-handed 16th notes?

 

[avedisschwinn]

So, for all of us who struggle with that kind of 16th note groove/tempo, here is a great tune to practice. Much slower, but still soulful as hell, and you will get looser rather than tighter as you play it:

 

[TonyVazquez]

For speed and stamina, try practicing with sticks that are heavier gauge than what your used to. Not too heavy, but gradually heavy from one gauge to the next.

Or, wear ankle weights on your wrists.
Some ankle weights have removable
weight bars... remove some weight,
and practice the lighter weight until you're ready for more weight.

In the case of either of these two methods, always start lightweight.
Take your time, and play what you Can.
If you wanna develop any fancier chops,
do it gradually and carefully.
Don't jump into it or else you'll catch fatigue or injure yourself.
Work within the reasonable capabilities
of your age and gradually develop yourself. If you can't develop, then stay within your strengths.

You can play simple, and still be an awesome drummer.

 

[stevesmithfan]

Play 4 quarters notes with your right hand. In between each quarter note play the 3 sixteenth e and uh with your fingers. Repeat and you’ll create a momentum, wrist stroke then 3 finger taps on the stick. You won’t experience fatigue!