Do you use alternate sticking when you can’t quite do what was originally done.

[KCJazz]

For example, my band recently learned Georgy Porgy where Porcaro is playing 16ths with one hand on the hats at 96 bpm. I can’t keep it up throughout the whole song yet, so I’m playing 16ths with two hands. Ugg, hate to do it but a boys got to do what he’s got to do….

My understanding is that Jeff worked extra hard to be able to play fast 16ths because he didn't want the variation in sound from alternating.

A tip for playing fast is to not come down with your stick when you close the hi-hat after opening and closing it, provided you throw in some openings and closings. The slight break gives your hand a rest. The left foot "chick" sound alone can yield a cleaner sounding result. That doesn't mean I always adhere to this. I will hit hand and foot together when I play a swing rhythm on the hi-hat, for example.

 

[mfry2112]

Why not? Do what works, Johnny and suzzie will never know

 

[mebeatee]

Tell me this would work with two hands……not a chance….pure magic from about :56 to 1:26 in the vid below. Watch the hand….yes….“hand“ folks. James Gadson…..
I’m also guessing not too many reggae or dub folks about…..
bt

 

[Tornado]

Cant' quite = can't. So yeah, you have to do what you can do. No reason to sweat it.

 

[Matched Gripper]

For example, my band recently learned Georgy Porgy where Porcaro is playing 16ths with one hand on the hats at 96 bpm. I can’t keep it up throughout the whole song yet, so I’m playing 16ths with two hands. Ugg, hate to do it but a boys got to do what he’s got to do….

Porcaro had a beastly right hand. Africa is another one. Another option is to alternate straight 16ths with triple bounces, and substitute the “e” with a left hand grace note on the snare. Or, play 16ths with 2 hands with left hand playing grace notes on snare and bring the right hand over to the snare for back beats.

 

[Matched Gripper]

So, for all of us who struggle with that kind of 16th note groove/tempo, here is a great tune to practice. Much slower, but still soulful as hell, and you will get looser rather than tighter as you play it:

Here are a couple of super funky tunes to practice to:

Here’s one a little more challenging, but, not too much more:

 

[CC Cirillo]

Of course you can work on it and get it, or work on it a get it at 90 bpm and lock it so tight everyone will think Toto played it too fast.

 

[44Ronin]

I’m also guessing not too many reggae or dub folks about…..
bt

 

[dcrigger]

For example, my band recently learned Georgy Porgy where Porcaro is playing 16ths with one hand on the hats at 96 bpm. I can’t keep it up throughout the whole song yet, so I’m playing 16ths with two hands. Ugg, hate to do it but a boys got to do what he’s got to do….

Sure I'll do anything to prevent dragging a band down from me trying to play something, I'm not being able to play. I give zero cents about playing something "right" at the expense of playing it well.

But I hear you on opting to go hand-to-hand as opposed to one hand. It's just always a very different feel.

Something I would suggest keeping in mind - is that going two-handed is not the only option. The other being to simply not play all of the 16th's all of the time. Watching a video of Jeff play this - I saw that his arm was pumping 1/8th's like crazy. Major push-pull action going on - which means those 16th's are very pulsed (accented on the 1/8th notes). So I'll oftentimes leave out some of the e's and/or the ah's. Sometimes substituting a soft LH ghost note in their place - though sometimes not. (too many of those ghost notes - and it starts to have yet another different feel). But as comprises go - I sometimes find leaving some notes out does less "damage" then entirely changing the feel by going two-handed.

Just a thought...

 

[Markkuliini]

If you watch Jeff play fast 16ths in his instructional video, he’s not playing the hats that hard. Kick and snare are way louder. I think that’s part of his feel and tone. Not sure how hard you’re going at them, but try easing up a little and see. I’ve found it’s a lot easier that way.

That's also one of the reasons why the two handed version often sounds too different: it's quite challenging to play 8ths (that each hand is doing) with authority but as soft as one handed.

 

[Pat A Flafla]

On 50 Ways, I find it easier to play with my right on the hats, left on the snare, and I prefer singling out the herta. For some reason that beat also prompts me to choke up almost an inch higher (with a very loose grip) than usual. That's literally the only tune I ever do that on. Super floaty with very minimal wrist movement. And the "wrong" sticking.

 

[Tornado]

Something I've thought about is "why" the single handed approach feels different than the two handed approach. And I think there's a stiffness, a rigidness that you get from really pumping that one hand. And if the right hand comes down off the hats to play the backbeat, it's really hard to make it sound the same. So keeping that in mind and trying to duplicate all hats on right and snare on left, I think it's possible to come a little closer. A pattern that I have started to enjoy, and can really be made to feel different ways, is playing almost all the notes on the hats with the right hand, and the 'e' of 1, the 'a' of 2, the 'e' of 3, and the 'a' of 4 with the left hand. So you're always playing the right hand 5 notes in a row on the hats (right handed paradiddle followed by three strokes and a left on the hats) The left hand still plays the backbeats, and as long as the occasional left on the hats is controlled, it helps it sound more like the original groove.

I watched a video of Jeff playing this live, and they pushed it to 99bpm. That's crazy fast to feel so good.

 

[bassanddrum84]

Been there and done that. Not that particular song but same 16ths. Did it out of laziness lol. You’ll get through it and be blasting them one handed in no time.

 

[Pat A Flafla]

Something I've thought about is "why" the single handed approach feels different than the two handed approach. And I think there's a stiffness, a rigidness that you get from really pumping that one hand. And if the right hand comes down off the hats to play the backbeat, it's really hard to make it sound the same. So keeping that in mind and trying to duplicate all hats on right and snare on left, I think it's possible to come a little closer. A pattern that I have started to enjoy, and can really be made to feel different ways, is playing almost all the notes on the hats with the right hand, and the 'e' of 1, the 'a' of 2, the 'e' of 3, and the 'a' of 4 with the left hand. So you're always playing the right hand 5 notes in a row on the hats (right handed paradiddle followed by three strokes and a left on the hats) The left hand still plays the backbeats, and as long as the occasional left on the hats is controlled, it helps it sound more like the original groove.

I watched a video of Jeff playing this live, and they pushed it to 99bpm. That's crazy fast to feel so good.

The word that comes to mind regarding single-hand 16ths is "assertion."

 

[Tornado]

The word that comes to mind regarding single-hand 16ths is "assertion."

That's a good one!

 

[DanRH]

Tell me this would work with two hands……not a chance….pure magic from about :56 to 1:26 in the vid below. Watch the hand….yes….“hand“ folks. James Gadson…..
I’m also guessing not too many reggae or dub folks about…..
bt

And at 70 BPM, anyone can handle that speed with one hand. And I totally agree with you. I play this song with my band at 81. It's when the tempo, for me, gets above 93...

 

[Trilock_Gurtu]

When i saw the title of this thread, the Doobie's song "I Keep Forgettin" came to mind. It is Porcaro as well. It wont have the same feel using two hands but it will work. Only the good/knowledgeable drummers in the audience would know you are cheating!

And they'll know why you're cheating

 

[bigbonzo]

Of course I do. And who's to say that what I come up with is better or worse than the original?

 

[Christopher]

So here’s one of the Jeff fast 16th note mater pieces played by another drummer. I don’t know who she is, but despite her accenting the 8ths a little hard, she puts a pocket down that is stunning! And some killer fills as well.

 

[bpaluzzi]

So here’s one of the Jeff fast 16th note mater pieces played by another drummer. I don’t know who she is, but despite her accenting the 8ths a little hard, she puts a pocket down that is stunning! And some killer fills as well.

Yvette Preyer

Yvette 'Babygirl' Preyer - SABIAN Cymbals

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