does anyone make repro ludwig double tom mounts? (maybe a suggestion for repro part manufacturers?)

[bon viesta]

i’ve seen guys like jp2 productions and steve maxwell make reproduction ludwig parts, like mounts or spurs, among other drum brands, but is there anyone who makes production 70s double tom posts? they’re probably the most iconic ludwig drum part, mount, whatever etc. i know jp2 makes ludwig drum spurs and they’re great i’m sure but he doesn’t make the actual bracket that would get drilled into the bass drum shell so that’s disappointing, and i know maxwell made the rail but recently he had to take it off shelves as it was getting a little too hard to keep production going. i’ve also seen dudes on ebay custom make rogers tom arms, so i’m sure it could be possible for someone to step up and start making these. just a suggestion really.

 

[bon viesta]

though would copyright be an issue? i know it’s a problem with badges but maybe it’s different with badges because those are meant to basically brand an individual drum.

 

[JDA]

that was semi-superceded with the Rocker may want to look into to.

and on the later ones the black Ludwig logo was just a plastic sticker one could pull off)
but no no one's repoed that

 

[drumtimejohn]

Ludwig parts are available in the used market near daily. Consider placing a “wanted” ad.

 

[mgdrummer]

Ludwig still makes that diamond mount bracket that gets installed on the top of the bass drum.

As far as the actual double tom post w/the ratchet arms, I’m not sure there’s a market for a reproduction. There are tons of them on the used market. Functionally the newer swivel ball adjustment style double tom holders are far more flexible and stable. The ratchet style is like going backwards.

 

[bon viesta]

i get what you guys are all saying and it’s very reasonable but it’s just that, well who wouldn’t want a vintage style part of something to be manufactured brand new? it’s the same as saying the maxwell rail doesn’t make much sense because you could just get an old one used. with old used stuff who knows what you’re getting, quality differs from one seller to another, and one part to another. plus that stuff can break. it would just be a bit neat. but of course thanks for all of the input, i mean you really do see those things everywhere.

 

[thin shell]

Ludwig still makes the classic tom mount that is used for the gull wing spurs and they even sell kits with gull wings so they are getting the gull wings from somewhere.

As mgdrummer said, the diamond plate is still also made. I disagree about the new ones being more stable though. The old ones are just as stable if not more so than a modern ball mount. They do require you to use your brain in a different way than a ball mount. Ball mounts require you to loosen one wing nut and then move the drum around where you want it and then tighten. They are dead simple and require very little thought. The old Ludwig mount has two nuts to loosen and a ratchet to adjust. It does the same thing but just requires more work and thought. There is a very small lack of flexibility in positioning due to the ratchet but it is very slight. With both you still have the adjustment up and down the L arm and the rotation of the drum on the L arm so that part is exactly the same.

I do agree that they market for them is probably too small to warrant the capital investment required to tool up to make the individual parts required to make the whole thing. Especially when they are so readily available on the used market.

If Steve still has access to the tooling that was made for his repro Rail mount then there would only be one part that would need to be made for the Ludwig double mount and that would be the center cast piece of the mount. It would use the ratchet, L arm, eye bolt and nuts that are already used on the rail.

 

[JDA]

i get what you guys are all saying and it’s very reasonable but it’s just that, well who wouldn’t want a vintage style part of something to be manufactured brand new?

also, there was a double tom post before that one, and it looked like it possibly came from Walberg and Auge. universal piece.

 

[bon viesta]

Ludwig still makes the classic tom mount that is used for the gull wing spurs and they even sell kits with gull wings so they are getting the gull wings from somewhere.

As mgdrummer said, the diamond plate is still also made. I disagree about the new ones being more stable though. The old ones are just as stable if not more so than a modern ball mount. They do require you to use your brain in a different way than a ball mount. Ball mounts require you to loosen one wing nut and then move the drum around where you want it and then tighten. They are dead simple and require very little thought. The old Ludwig mount has two nuts to loosen and a ratchet to adjust. It does the same thing but just requires more work and thought. There is a very small lack of flexibility in positioning due to the ratchet but it is very slight. With both you still have the adjustment up and down the L arm and the rotation of the drum on the L arm so that part is exactly the same.

I do agree that they market for them is probably too small to warrant the capital investment required to tool up to make the individual parts required to make the whole thing. Especially when they are so readily available on the used market.

If Steve still has access to the tooling that was made for his repro Rail mount then there would only be one part that would need to be made for the Ludwig double mount and that would be the center cast piece of the mount. It would use the ratchet, L arm, eye bolt and nuts that are already used on the rail.

very good point. that’s probably why you don’t have any small manufacturers making them. though i will say i do wish that the jp2 production guy made the spur brackets for those thin ludwig spurs. or at least the washer for it or something so you could just use the modern thick bracket and it would hold relatively stable. but one can only dream, lol.

 

[thin shell]

i get what you guys are all saying and it’s very reasonable but it’s just that, well who wouldn’t want a vintage style part of something to be manufactured brand new? it’s the same as saying the maxwell rail doesn’t make much sense because you could just get an old one used. with old used stuff who knows what you’re getting, quality differs from one seller to another, and one part to another. plus that stuff can break. it would just be a bit neat. but of course thanks for all of the input, i mean you really do see those things everywhere.

That really depends. Single mounted toms are much more in fashion than double mounted toms these days. The US made vintage Ludwig mounts are of very high quality. I have heard complaints of the carriage bolts stripping on the Maxwell repro consoles. That's an easy enough fix but the quality of a repro all depends on the person having them made. If they try to do it on the cheap then the quality of the repro will be less than that of an original. If they spec that the parts meet a certain quality level then they can easily be as good if not better than the original parts.

 

[bon viesta]

also, there was a double tom post before that one, and it looked like it possibly came from Walberg and Auge. universal piece.

the 1967 tom mount? or the ludwig mount that had a super plain font just saying “ludwig” on it.

 

[bon viesta]

oh wait i know the one you’re talking about, the mount that was used in the early 60s and was repurposed for concert toms in the 70s.

 

[Rich K.]

Guessing a repro would have to sell for $150+.
Also, Maxwell could not get the correct size bolt nuts made, so odds are that would be a hindrance. And there were a few different versions.
Probably it wouldn't be too profitable to make them.

 

[JDA]

oh wait i know the one you’re talking about, the mount that was used in the early 60s and was repurposed for concert toms in the 70s.

and there was a Clip-on for double tom sets (not concert toms) that had a wood block at the top; I had that one. Clip with wood block)

 

[bon viesta]

and there was a Clip-on for double tom sets (not concert toms) that had a wood block at the top; I had that one. Clip with wood block)

yep that one! it was used on the hollywood and blue note kit.

 

[thin shell]

Guessing a repro would have to sell for $150+.
Also, Maxwell could not get the correct size bolt nuts made, so odds are that would be a hindrance. And there were a few different versions.
Probably it wouldn't be too profitable to make them.

Those Tall Head Hex Nuts would be no problem to have made. The problem is the cost for a production run with a minimum run size of probably a couple of thousand. He probably didn't know how to get someone to make them or more likely, would have added enough to the cost that it wasn't worth it to him.

 

[JDA]

yep that one! it was used on the hollywood and blue note kit.

Ludwig Double Tom Holder #781C -1959 to '60 | Vintage Drum Center | Reverb

*FREE tech support when you buy this item: Get a 10 minute phone consult with Ned Ingberman, our senior technician and founder. Just send a message to set it up.Restore your vintage Ludwig drum set with this semi-rare 1959- 1960 double tom mount with wooden platform. We've cleaned, inspected and ...

reverb.com

Ludwig Model #781 Vintage First Double Tom Holder - Early 60's | Vintage Drum Bug | Reverb

Ludwig Double tom holderThis is the first double tom holder Ludwig had back in the late 50's/early 60'sModel # 781Post length is 11 1/4" aproxChrome in good condition with all original partsIt shows normal wear for its age, with scratches, mild pitting and barely any rust. Please pay close a...

reverb.com

Vintage Ludwig Double Tom Holder 1960's | Brian's Boutique | Reverb

Check pics for condition. Rock solid and works great.

reverb.com

 

[idrum4fun]

If anyone could duplicate the iconic Ludwig double-tom holder, it would be Steve Maxwell. The biggest issue is tooling up for all the parts. Steve did an excellent job on his rail consolette, which basically uses the later style Ludwig geared-ratchet holder. The metal piece that holds the ratchet and wraps around the rail is thicker than what Ludwig was using. As others have noted, the nuts and bolts Steve uses are inferior, not that attractive and can be easily stripped. I solved this by using all chromed nuts and bolts on my Maxwell consolette that I installed on my 1967 Slingerland kit. It certainly does add to the overall cost, but I think this is something Steve should consider.

-Mark

 

[JDA]

I want to ask the Ludwig guys. My first set in 1968 bought used out of the paper (or a friend of my dad's can't recall) was a Ludwig 20/12/12/16 and Supra. Used (so I don't know year)

It had this Tom Holder

Ludwig Double Tom Holder #781C -1959 to '60 | Vintage Drum Center | Reverb

*FREE tech support when you buy this item: Get a 10 minute phone consult with Ned Ingberman, our senior technician and founder. Just send a message to set it up.Restore your vintage Ludwig drum set with this semi-rare 1959- 1960 double tom mount with wooden platform. We've cleaned, inspected and ...

reverb.com

This Tom Holder (part no 781? is written in these ads as "59-60" for the year...
Assuming the Supra snare was original (no reason to think otherwise) to the set..

Was my Supra Brass?

I think I'm afraid it was ; )

http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_snaredrums/1959_LUDWIG_SNARES1.jpg

I don't recall the weight it was substantial and darn pretty sure there were no pits on it...
Ha!

 

[K.O.]

I think the ample supply of used ones coupled with the relatively small market would make it difficult to justify the expense of having the tooling made. The Maxwell rail is based primarily on the Ludwig design but is at heart a generic part that can be used on any brand of drums. The Ludwig double tom mount is specific to Ludwigs only which decreases the size of the potential market. Not to mention the fact that, as mentioned above, there are modern versions available that work better, or at least are assumed to work better or as well. The originals are fairly bulletproof too. I've never seen one break. The knuckle with the eyebolt inside can wear out but generally if not mistreated the rest of the unit will hold up forever. Unlike with the rail mount once you get the double mount set you should never need to adjust it again, or very rarely, which cuts down on the wear and tear. Rails on the other hand have to be adjusted and re-adjusted with each tear down and set up and they can wear out over time.

If someone did repro it they'd likely need to get $150 to $200 per unit to recoup their investment from the limited potential sales. Which would lead to posts here wondering why anyone would expect someone to pay that much for an item when there are plenty of originals in decent shape available for $40-$80.

Ludwig has been pretty good about keeping most of their "legacy" parts in production. Lugs remain the same dimensions, the brackets and base plate remain in production albeit in somewhat improved form, but with the same mounting patterns and basic look. I doubt many younger drummers would opt for the old school holder over the newer versions with the ball arms so that would limit the market to old dudes and/or collectors that want the right look on a vintage set...and then they'd probably complain if it wasn't 100% accurate down to the slightest detail.