Don't see this every day - 60's Ludwig 16" x 12" BDP bass - Factory?

mudjacker2

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somewhere there is a thread on this drum....Im thinking it was listed for 1100 or so a week or 2 ago.....is it real?...no one knows....
 
Z

zenstat

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It seems a tall tale requiring a special order, two deaths, and the mixing of parts from a different time period. I say "show me the purchase order".

Previous auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/60s-Vintage-Ludwig-Special-Order-Factory-Built-16-x-12-Bass-Drum-RARE-/261519184158

I don't yet find a previous DFO thread but I'm still searching.

Found it: http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/100539-interesting-1960s-ludwig-bdp-bass-drum/

The interior certainly looks to have nuts and bolts which either have lived in a completely different environment for some years -- inside the same drum inches apart :laughing5: or were assembled to create this drum after the fact. Thus no longer "factory original" and unlikely to get a huge price premium based on that claim.

Ludwig-16-inner.jpg
 

Rik_Everglade

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I love going to the Buffalo Drum Outlet. That owner is a great guy that bends over backwards to help you in any way. His inventory moves, so the vintage stuff is in and out constantly. He had a Guitar Center move into his territory, but I think that he offers more for the drummer, so I hope he succeeds in that area.
 
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zenstat

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Good to hear he is holding out against Guitar Center...

And more in response to the other (earlier DFO) thread than what has been mentioned in this current thread:

A 16" diameter 12" deep shell does't need to represent a cut down 16x16 floor tom. They were available in the 1967 catalog. Model 973P in the Classic Parade Drum series, and they were also available in the high tension series (1173P). So this drum on eBay might represent one of the parade drums with a tom mount and legs added. It could have been done at the factory. We just don't know.

All I'm saying is that a tall tale isn't really needed to sell the drum. Any claim of "factory original" is unsupported by documentation. In fact, there is contrary evidence clearly visible in the photograph of the interior which appears to show that various bolts and washers have been much more recently replaced.
 

K.O.

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The nickel hardware doesn't ring true to me. You special order such a drum and scrimp on a buck or two by getting nickel instead of chrome? Nickel was on it's way out by then anyhow. I don't think Ludwig would have arbitrarily installed nickel to use up parts. I know Ludwig often did whatever it took to keep the line moving but a special order "custom" drum such as this was bound to be under much more severe scrutiny than a catalog drum set headed to dealer stock or a beginner snare drum kit being put together, so why invite trouble?


Unless....maybe an employee putting together a small bass drum as part of a set for a child or grandchild. He has permission to spend some time and materials on the project for a small fee (maybe free) as long as he only raids the older parts that aren't selling (ie: nickel plated ones). Every bit as possible as the story in the auction and the resulting drum would be the same whether made for a pro jazz player or a kid's Christmas.

Really no way to ever know, although typically a marching drum would have had the small lugs.
 

retrosonic

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I agree with K.O. Drums like this are usually drums that the employees built after work with spare parts, sometimes with rejected parts for one reason another. Alot of the drum companies would destroy drums that didnt pass their own inspections, and sometimes the employees would buy these drums for a song....or fish them out of the garbage pile when no one was looking.

Still, its a cool drum and I wouldnt mind owning it.
 
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zenstat

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K.O. said:
Really no way to ever know, although typically a marching drum would have had the small lugs.
I'm not sure what the hole spacing was for the "high tension" (later Mach) lugs. Was it the same as the large Classic spacing? I've never had any dealings with the "high tension" versions.

I know that the spacing wouldn't be the same for the small Classic lugs, which is why I also gave the model number for the "high tension" version. I suppose for completeness I should have said "with the high tension lugs swapped out for large Classic, and the tom mount and legs added."
 

mlayton

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I do not think that lug scenario will match up steve.

mike
 
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zenstat

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mlayton said:
I do not think that lug scenario will match up steve.

mike
Thanks Mike. I've just been off looking at the Ludwig parts catalog with the nice exploded drawings of the various lugs, but there isn't a hole spacing measurement in sight. *sigh*
 

Rik_Everglade

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If it was not factory, then I applaud the person that matched the 16" hoops for that drum, with inlay that matches nicely, and just the right amount of wear for that age. So somebody disassembled this and put it back together without considering where the nuts and bolts were originally located, not a big deal.
 

CaptainCrunch

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FWIW, I have seen that kind of thing in never-before-opened Ludwigs. Some of the screws had a good plate job, some were just bare steel. So it COULD be legit. The nickel hardware in the mix does seem weird to me too, though.
 

drums147

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Maybe somebody lost some of the original tension casing (lug) bolts/screws when they had it apart cleaning it and replaced them with some new ones they bought at their local music store . . .

The drum is nearly 50 years of age . . . a lot of strange things can happen to a drum in that many years . . . and after all, it was owned by "musicians" and drummers at that ;) . . . I wouldn't base my judgment of originality on a handful the bolts/screws . . . just sayin' . . .

The nickel plate is a bit odd though . . . maybe somebody swapped out the chrome hardware with a drum that had nickel that they played more . . . you are talking about a drum that went through the era of players . . . not collectors . . . too bad they can't talk . . . NAD
 


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