Downsizing Microphones?

[CherryClassic]

Playing live, I use 6 microphones now, 1 of those is an overhead; drum set is 2 up 1 down with 1 ride and 1 crash cymbal. All mic’s go direct to the main board thru a snake system. My general understanding as a beginner is that microphones mounted on the toms will pickup the tone more effectively. Due to playing multiple venues I realize I’ll need to downsize in the number of mic’s bring used due to some house system limitations.

Multiple questions come to mind:

1. When using 2 mic’s and 1 or 2 overheads is tone quality minimized?

2. Would it be an advantage to have my own mixer, controlling tone quality and balance between drums and having one main line going to the master?

I probably have more questions in the future, but I’ll keep it simple with only two questions at this point. My main concern is tone quality or should I worry about it.


Thanks,
sherm

 

[WesChilton]

Tone is always going to change based on how many mics you have and where they are placed, along with various other factors like room size, ceiling height, acoustic treatment (if any)... but that doesn't mean you can't get a great sound with one overhead, a kick mic and a snare mic. You just don't have as much control over the sound, so mic placement becomes critical, and you will need to "self-mix" by playing differently. Meaning, for example, if your toms aren't mic'd but you have overheads you might have to play the toms a little harder and play lighter on the cymbals to balance the sound.

If you want to have a consistent mic setup every night, you definitely could carry around your own small mixer... put your mics into that, send the front of house guy a stereo mix. I did that for years. You just need to make sure the mixer has XLR mic preamps and is not just a line level mixer, like many are.

 

[gbow]

Yea, really depends a lot on where you're playing and what you're trying to do. If you play the same places often, and they have a FOH guy, talk to them and see what they prefer. Nothing worse than handing off a poor mix from your mixer to the sound guy, he's not going to be happy even if he doesn't say anything. Self mixing your drums, in many different venues with different characteristics from behind your kit on your own mixer has it's challenges.

If you're playing small venues, where your drum kit is already loud, and you just want a little reinforcement, then something like a Yamaha EAD10 is excellent and actually better than individual mics because you can get better FX and tones.

If you're playing places with a FOH guy who will mic the kit for you, that's the way to go. He knows his venue and is comfortable with what he has and works for him.

If you're playing larger gigs, outdoor festivals, etc. Then you probably need individual mics on your drums, but you probably also have a sound guy who's going to mix your drums.

I have a hard time imagining where a personal mixer for your kit is better. The places you would use that would be smaller places that don't have a FOH guy. In those places your drums are already loud and just need some reinforcement in certain areas and some FX. The Yamaha EAD10 is great for that. But if you don't want that, 1 or 2 overheads combined with a snare/kick mic are fine.

In those small venues, with small stages, you would be amazed at how much of your kit comes through the vocal mics. They are basically "drum room mics." And as was mentioned, practice your touch on cymbals and toms.

gabo

 

[WesChilton]

In those small venues, with small stages, you would be amazed at how much of your kit comes through the vocal mics. They are basically "drum room mics." And as was mentioned, practice your touch on cymbals and toms.

This is actually a great point. I remember a weekly gig I had back in the early 90s.. in a very small club with a tight stage, and literally all I used was a kick mic, everything else came through the vocal mics quite clearly.

 

[bamamule77]

If the house PA system doesn’t have enough channels for the band and drums then I would assume the room is not big enough to need to mic everything.

 

[Tornado]

If the house PA system doesn’t have enough channels for the band and drums then I would assume the room is not big enough to need to mic everything.

I would say this also. Most small venues have no need for overheads, the acoustic volume of cymbals is plenty. There is usually nothing else competing in the sonic space your cymbals occupy, especially if you're using brighter cymbals like A's, so they cut through the mix just fine. I've had my cymbals come through the vocal mics so much that it was annoying. Recording it off the board is a different story, but for live only, I would start by leaving the overhead at home.

But then what of your toms? Don't know how you tune them. Toms tuned low and flabby sound great behind the kit and under mics, but if you tune them up they project much better in the room, and you might be surprised at just how loud and room filling they are with no mics.

 

[Seb77]

If the cymbals are loud enough but you want fuller sounding drums, you could set up an OH and low-pass it to just amplify the low end from toms (and snare).

 

[dboomer]

It’s a double edged sword. When more than one microphone picks up the same sound source phase cancellation occurs which cuts out some frequencies. So consider that when mic’d guitar also gets into a drum mic it is diminishing the quality of the guitar too.

So fewer mics will result it a more true pickup if the sound sources. Listen to some of those old jazz recordings from the 50’s where they captured the whole band with two mics.

Comparing overheads to close micing toms, my opinion is that overheads will likely give you more of the tone of the drums the way you hear them. Typically tom mics are placed aimed at the edges of the drum. Drums sound like crap there (just tap there with a stick or put your ear there). So that’s not really the sound I wanna send through the sound system.

Overheads are gonna capture a more tonally blended sound, the way your ears hears your drums. But if you have a really loud band in a relatively cramped space you are gonna have to deal with the bleed issues.

 

[CherryClassic]

OK, let give you guys more information, I can see that I should have provided a little more than I did; in tiny venues we don't use microphones except for vocals. The situation we are in at least once a month is in a very large venue and we don't have access to the house system it's programed for disk jockey usage but we are able to use the speaker system. One of the band members owns a very nice PA system on rollers which is a hassle to transport and the user/s are having less than the best of luck controlling the system.

They are thinking of using a smaller simpler mixing system they can carry around in one hand. I do not know at this point what it is and how many channels we are dealing with. I'm just thinking ahead of smaller possibilities and how/if I need to provide equipment that will help in some way. I think it is one of the Mackie wireless mixing pads systems. And that's about all I know at this point.

I appreciate everyone's feedback and will look into your suggestions, which is a lot more than I expected. LOL

sherm

 

[groovemastergreg]

In any of my smaller gigs, this was the way. Even in some of my mid-size gigs with not so loud guitarists.

This is actually a great point. I remember a weekly gig I had back in the early 90s.. in a very small club with a tight stage, and literally all I used was a kick mic, everything else came through the vocal mics quite clearly

 

[bpaluzzi]

Unless you’re very experienced with it, I’d consider mixing from behind the drums (even just a submix of the drums) a bad idea.

 

[blueshadow]

Have you looked at the Yamaha EAD Sherm? Might be a better option than a mixer

 

[CherryClassic]

Have you looked at the Yamaha EAD Sherm? Might be a better option than a mixer

No, not yet, just found out about them yesterday but I will keep that in mind.

Thanks,
sherm