Drilling holes for rivets?

[kona1984]

I'm thinking about drilling at least two holes in a 20 inch ride cymbal. Has anyone here drilled rivet holes in a 20? How far from the edge for best placement?

 

[2000dan2000]

1.5-2” in from the edge has always been my go to.

 

[Sinclair]

Sharp bit with wood backing. Obviously they shouldn't be too close together. Steel or brass....or BOTH!?

 

[GiveMeYourSmallestSticks!]

I also use painter's tape and a centre punch to avoid scratches or the bit skipping. 1.5 inches from the edge, measure twice, drill once!

 

[kona1984]

Thanks guys!



I'm not in a hurry... maybe late winter project. The cymbal is a 60s A Zildjian

 

[Kcmcc]

Thanks guys!



I'm not in a hurry... maybe late winter project. The cymbal is a 60s A Zildjian

That’s fine, do it when you’re ready, but, rest assured: drilling a cymbal isn’t really a project. Just have a steadyish hand and a sharp bit. I am completely useless at most “skilled” construction/carpentry/power-tool tasks, but I drill cymbals whenever I feel like I want one drilled — with no worries and no bad outcomes yet.

 

[Deafmoon]

Drilling is a huge devaluation to your cymbal if down the road you decide to sell the pie. Do yourself a favor and go check out the Ahead Cymbal Fizzler. It screws on the cymbal stand and you can flip one or both arms downs. I just got one and for under $20 this is far batter than drilling.

 

[Blue Zurich]

Like or similar to what others said...1.5 - 2" from edge go slow with a new bit and a block of wood beneath, stabilize the entire setup (can't be emphasized enough!) It's not a project as kcmcc said, it's a 5 minute thing. As far as devaluing, I took a cymbal I wasn't happy with (Mehmet 20" Jazz Ride) and drilled it and it is sizzlin' perfection now. So imho, I increased the value by a ton. Would I drill a K Con or other valuable pie? No.

I like a 9, 12 and 3 o'clock for a 3 rivet placement

 

[Slingerland3ply]

drill with slow speed and cutting oil .do not heat up the cymbal.

 

[zenstat]

Since you have revealed it is an A Zildjian here is the instruction sheet which comes with their rivets:

They used to suggest something a little different which didn't mention heat giving the metal distemper and also suggested a distance in from the edge of 1" or so. The older instruction sheet says

Usually six rivets are installed per Sizzle Cymbal. The holes are 3/16" in diameter. Rivets are installed approximately 1" from the edge of the cymbal. Rivets can be flared with the use of a tapered punch of a ball been hammer.

More than six rives mat be installed, but we recommend no more than eight. If rivets should be removed for change in sound, original tone and durability of cymbal are practically the same.

In this older version they don't mention 3 rivets in a cluster (eg 19" Beautiful Baby) or 20 rivets for a Swish Knocker. So take this as general advice, which is how it was intended. We also know from studying hundreds of 1950s A Zildjian cymbals that during that era the rivets tended to be a bit further in, say 1.5" to 2". Styles change over time.

Drilling is a huge devaluation to your cymbal if down the road you decide to sell the pie. Do yourself a favor and go check out the Ahead Cymbal Fizzler. It screws on the cymbal stand and you can flip one or both arms downs. I just got one and for under $20 this is far batter than drilling.

Is this "huge devaluation" evidence based? I ask because I've been working on that topic for a few years now. Your claim seems to be what we statisticians call anecdata, but you can easily dispel my concerns by describing your research method. The sorts of things I'd like to know are these:

How many cymbals is your estimate of "huge" based on? What is huge in dollars? Or as a percentage of the value before drilling? Does it apply equally to all brands and production eras? How did you calculate your factor? Is the effect large enough to matter to somebody with a 1960s 20" A Zildjian cymbal?

See also this discussion of mounting hole enlarging and change of value which goes down a similar rabbit hole in terms of estimating the change in expected price due a change of one factor among many factors known to change the expected price:

Does enlarging bell holes on vintage A's & old K's change their value or tone? And rounding up cymbal dimensions.

I know this is fairly divisive topic among people. Those who think of their vintage cymbals as semi-collectibles see it one way. Those who just play and gig them may see it totally different. 1. Yes, the value and tone are altered, even if not easily measured. No doubt "most" old...

www.drumforum.org

 

[jashoup]

I bought a cheap drill press at Menard's a few years back, specifically to use on cymbals (of course it comes in handy for other things, too). It was less than $100 at the time, and I've used it to drill dozens of cymbals, both my own and for friends. With a little light pressure and a good sharp bit, the drill almost pops through the cymbal instantly. IMHO, that's the best way to do it. I see the point about not heating up the cymbal too much, but I think that's more of a concern when you're drilling by hand. So maybe you know someone with a shop that might have a press?

Over the years, I've sold many of the cymbals I have drilled, and I have yet to have anyone try to low ball me specifically because the cymbal was drilled. I guess I could see how a drilled cymbal could be a turn off to certain buyers, however. That said, I've never had any trouble selling drilled cymbals and I usually get more or less my asking price on them.

 

[jashoup]

Another thing, if you're looking to do multiple holes, get a drum shell drilling layout mat. You can center the cymbal on it and it helps guide your drilling so that the holes are spaced out evenly.

You can download it free here: http://www.drummaker.com/layoutMats

I took it to Staples and had them print and laminate it for me. Very handy.

 

[kona1984]

Great stuff guys... thank you!
I don't think I'm going to drill my 40s K ha.
My 56 18.5 inch old stamp k Sizzle Ride has factory rivet hols. Zildjian sent me some "modern" rivets .... long and not brass. I ended up finding some shorter brass ones... probably more like what originally came with cymbal I'm guessing. The rivet holes are close... maybe 1 inch... from the edge.
The main reason I'm wanting to rivet the 20 is that the cymbal sounds Gong-ish and I think rivets may smooth that out a bit. I love how my K Sizzle sounds I have an Istanbul 21 with two rivets... sounds great.

 

[JazzDrumGuy]

I do 1.5" from the edge and start with one hole. I have a regular bit (I think 5/32 or 11/64) and use blue painters tape on both sides. This way the tip doesn't zig or zag and leave a mark (aka sign of an amateur). I usually put the hole at 12:00. Put the cymbal on the stand and play it. It will rotate to a certain position so you know which is 12:00. Make sure it's hanging properly. I don't like the three hole cluster that Zildjian has. I usually go 6-8" apart for the second hole. Sometimes I'll do holes at 9, 12 and 3:00 depending on how much sizzle I want. It's easy to do....

 

[petereather]

You should stick to your plan , Its yours ,You might come up with something .

 

[PPF]

Great stuff guys... thank you!
I don't think I'm going to drill my 40s K ha.
My 56 18.5 inch old stamp k Sizzle Ride has factory rivet hols. Zildjian sent me some "modern" rivets .... long and not brass. I ended up finding some shorter brass ones... probably more like what originally came with cymbal I'm guessing. The rivet holes are close... maybe 1 inch... from the edge.
The main reason I'm wanting to rivet the 20 is that the cymbal sounds Gong-ish and I think rivets may smooth that out a bit. I love how my K Sizzle sounds I have an Istanbul 21 with two rivets... sounds great.

I had a similar issue with one of my cymbals - this „gongish“ sound. it actually came from the fact that the shape of the profile wasn’t perfect. There was one flat spot which was responsible for this annoying tone.

If you want to get rid of this, you should bring your cymbal to an experienced cymbalsmith and let him rehammer your cymbal. But that’s going to cost some $$
Installing rivets won’t make it go away I fear.

 

[dingaling]

Find the heavy spot. Most cymbals have a heavy spot that it will gravitate down towards. Mark it and keep an eye on it for a week of playing. If you don’t do this you could end up putting the river right where the stick hits.
I may or may not have done this in the past. :/

Once you find the heavy spot I like 1 rivet at 9 o’clock of the heavy spot. A second if needed at 3 o’clock.

 

[dingaling]

Since you have revealed it is an A Zildjian here is the instruction sheet which comes with their rivets:


View attachment 606720

They used to suggest something a little different which didn't mention heat giving the metal distemper and also suggested a distance in from the edge of 1" or so. The older instruction sheet says



In this older version they don't mention 3 rivets in a cluster (eg 19" Beautiful Baby) or 20 rivets for a Swish Knocker. So take this as general advice, which is how it was intended. We also know from studying hundreds of 1950s A Zildjian cymbals that during that era the rivets tended to be a bit further in, say 1.5" to 2". Styles change over time.




Is this "huge devaluation" evidence based? I ask because I've been working on that topic for a few years now. Your claim seems to be what we statisticians call anecdata, but you can easily dispel my concerns by describing your research method. The sorts of things I'd like to know are these:

How many cymbals is your estimate of "huge" based on? What is huge in dollars? Or as a percentage of the value before drilling? Does it apply equally to all brands and production eras? How did you calculate your factor? Is the effect large enough to matter to somebody with a 1960s 20" A Zildjian cymbal?

See also this discussion of mounting hole enlarging and change of value which goes down a similar rabbit hole in terms of estimating the change in expected price due a change of one factor among many factors known to change the expected price:

Does enlarging bell holes on vintage A's & old K's change their value or tone? And rounding up cymbal dimensions.

I know this is fairly divisive topic among people. Those who think of their vintage cymbals as semi-collectibles see it one way. Those who just play and gig them may see it totally different. 1. Yes, the value and tone are altered, even if not easily measured. No doubt "most" old...

www.drumforum.org

Didn’t know that about the dremel tool.

 

[Gretsch>All&Everythang]

Like or similar to what others said...1.5 - 2" from edge go slow with a new bit and a block of wood beneath, stabilize the entire setup (can't be emphasized enough!) It's not a project as kcmcc said, it's a 5 minute thing. As far as devaluing, I took a cymbal I wasn't happy with (Mehmet 20" Jazz Ride) and drilled it and it is sizzlin' perfection now. So imho, I increased the value by a ton. Would I drill a K Con or other valuable pie? No.

I like a 9, 12 and 3 o'clock for a 3 rivet placement

Agreed, I go 1.5” in, 9/12/3 o’clock for 3.

It is about as simple as it gets. I use a drill press but a battery powered drill would suffice. Wood block, and don’t let it walk

I am in the camp of not minding rivet holes in a cymbal, it wouldn’t impact the value I place on an older cymbal or new. I’ve drilled a couple K cons and a K custom dry ride way back.

Good luck!

 

[JohnnyVibesAZ]

I had my brother (Mr. Geometry), drill 6 holes in an 18" Sabian Rock Crash, alternating 1 1/2" and 1 3/4" from the edge. It has aluminum rivets, which work great.