I understand your point Nacci. It makes sense, but the other side of that coin is that the business can fall prey to anyone who decides to open up a negative post about them. Then you have a situation of blackmailing the business, forcing them to take a loss evertime someone posts something whether it's a true or false, or misunderstood claim.Whether the OP is correct in his assertion or completely unreasonable is irrelevant. Look at the damage that was done for what amounts to peanuts.
A good steward has a sense for people, says to himself or the people underneath him; this guys gonna be more trouble than it’s worth, give him his coupon and tom arm, make sure he is happy then dust your hands off and move on.
Of course it matters.Does it matter? The seller doesn't appear to be questioning the OP's version of it. If they did, we'd be looking at this a whole lot differently.
I think might have been a misunderstanding between seller's yep "Bracket" is there and buyer's oh ok "Bracket and Arm" is there...It was the promiss that it was there
Why should someone who's already got plenty of gear, attention, and money get BETTER service than someone who has not?DCP may have a somewhat headstrong culture but all will be fine if guys don't walk or write in and demand instruments, parts, and prices they claim they've seen.... somewhere, and expect the owner or upper management to run over to accede to their every demand like some fully endorsed star just came in.
One day Nasruddin walked into a day spa, dressed in ragged clothes, and looking dirty. The attendants didn't help him, didn't offer a massage, didn't offer hair care. When he asked for soap and a towel, they gave him a scrap of bar soap and a washrag. When he left, he gave each of the attendants a huge tip, the most money they'd ever gotten as a tip.I can envision situations where an unkempt possibly dirty, poorly spoken potential customer walks in with an attitude expecting to be kowtowed to and expecting to walk out with top tier gear for what they want to pay.
The law allows for verbal contracts between knowledgeable parties...which we had in this case. The majority of the world's contracts are verbal....probably millions of them every day. Even IF it were written down, we'd still be having this discussion as DCP clearly has stated they DO NOTnormally include tom arms with drums. That's their stated/verbal policy....though show me where that is written down. Therefore, it would have been a mistake, an error, or oversight had they offered a tom arm..... and they would have backed away from honoring that. That's why this thread is here. And we'd still be here in either instance. Though I would agree that a written contract would be great. It doesn't ensure you get what you ordered. I've ordered a number of items on Ebay where I didn't get everything that was listed in the photos/description. I told the seller as such. They refused to respond. It happens.Of course it matters.
If it is written down, there is really no discussion. The written word is the legal foundation.
If it is a voice conversation ... well ... that's just hearsay (legally).....
All good.The law allows for verbal contracts between knowledgeable parties...which we had in this case. The majority of the world's contracts are verbal....probably millions of them every day. Even IF it were written down, we'd still be having this discussion as DCP does not normally include tom arms with drums. That's their stated policy....though show me where that is written down. Therefore, it would have been a mistake, an error, and they would have backed away from honoring the OP's request. That's why this thread is here. And we'd still be here in either instance.
I love you dude, but your word is still your word regardless of how much money is involved.From reading this, you would think that someone died! We are just talking about a tom arm, correct? What... a $50 part? Did I read this wrong? At any rate, as a person in business for many years, you get a percentage of malcontents that no matter what you do, no matter how many hoops you jump through, they simply won't be happy. They then set out to destroy your reputation to such a degree in such a malicious manner that they would find great pleasure in starving you and your kids out because you have done them wrong. I have over the years noticed a few such people on this site that fit the bill. You know who you are. At any rate, to run one of the last remaining drum shops through the mud like this is way over the top, shameful, and indicative of the nasty, passive aggressive nature that we are finding more and more and being behind a computer (rather than face to face) has created. Sometimes things just happen and sometimes things just happen over and over again. This is hardly life or death. Put a stop on your credit card and be done with it. You are dealing with people who I am fairly certain are there to give you good service. Sometimes they pluke it up...give them the chance to make it right, but be reasonable. Write them a good old fashioned letter via snail mail...trust me, it gets a lot more attention than a stupid email that may be missed in the pile of 10,000 junk email that we all get. Hell, I don't even check my email anymore... Finally, we are all drummers here. Drummers are inherently cool. We aren't dicky sniveling guitarists. Be cool to one another. Tomorrow might be your last day on earth or his (your adversary)...Is this what you want to be known for. Besides, 50 bucks never killed anyone...
They have not.Is it just me, or is this starting to get out of hand? Clowndog, did DCP reach out to you privately since all this started and try to work with you?
Well said and I totally agree with you... Your word is your word. But, this is hardly the action of a scam artist, right? I have had people lose their minds over a buck, swear to curse your mother, grandmother, and your children's children. I just think that this was probably the result of a huge misunderstanding and/or a crappy employee that doesn't have their head in the game and as a result, has been exaggerated to the nth degree. Honestly, just call the credit card company and have them deal with the company if you can't get satisfaction. That said, I hardly think that the drum shop wants to ruin their reputation over $50! I don't want to get into a pissing match over this either...I just think that some of us are better communicators than others. Be reasonable, don't jump to conclusions too easily. It reminds me of a deal that I once made with Bizarre Guitar in Reno, NV over a Simmons SDS7 kit, which was very expensive for the day...in 1985. The kit cost me $5000 in 1985 dollars... Ouch!!! I sent multiple money orders (days before CC were used daily...cash was king) that were purchased with cash at my local drug store. Anyway, a couple weeks passed and I didn't get my drums, so I called them. No one at the store knew what I was talking about. The owner was out of town, he didn't leave any directions, etc... In the end, I sent out $5000 and no one could tell me what happened to the money. No drums arrived...it was a mess. To make a long story short, the money orders did arrive, the owner deposited them and went on vacation. It turned out that the guy at the drug store did not submit the paperwork for the money orders...he ripped them up and kept the cash. It took two months to get this figured out because banking wasn't what it is today...the whole instant banking through computers, etc... Finally, the NSF came through the bank and bounced and we eventually got to the bottom of it. Other than bad timing with the owner going out of town and no one else being able to read or go through his mail...no one knew that they money orders bounced or that they even arrived. No one could answer any questions regarding my purchase... In the end, the drug store was able to trace back that this employee had done this on numerous occasions and he was eventually prosecuted. The insurance company made good on my purchase because I kept the receipts. Now, was I frustrated with Bizarre Guitar? Yes, absolutely, but it really wasn't anyone's fault. Shite happens. Let's not lose our minds or our manners with one another. I swear, sometimes the stars simply don't lineup right and no matter what you do...it just comes out wrong. Give them a chance to make right on it. You never know what might be going on behind the scenes.[
I love you dude, but your word is still your word regardless of how much money is involved.
Facta Non Verba.Allow me to first of apologize for any miscommunication, confusion and anything of the sort. Shane was in fact on a much needed vacation for the majority of the timeframe you spoke of, so that would explain that.
As far as pricing/coupons are concerned, these drums and hardware we have from Sakae were purchased at a discount and in turn are being sold at a heavy discount. Our coupons do not work on already discounted items, that goes for any clearance item, Sakae or not. This is why that coupon would not work on that drum. Things like this happen every time we have a sale, everyone wants more and more. As it stands the discounts are already quite drastic. It's important to point out that this all started because an additional discount wasn't granted on top of an already $200 discount on the drum.
Something else I would like to point out is that while we have the appearance of being a large operation, we work with a pretty small staff, less than 10 of us all told. We do our best to treat everyone as our sole priority, but that is not always possible. The confusion on the tom mount being included could be chalked up to a miscommunication on verbiage. We would have said the mounting hardware was included, which it is. The tom are and clamps are almost always separate unless otherwise noted.
This whole thing seems to be one huge misunderstanding and it is unfortunate that it has reached this point.
I also want to speak to something Nacci mentioned, regarding one of our guys asking him to write in. Like I mentioned earlier, we are a lean operation and at times we can become totally overwhelmed, especially if there is a healthy amount of customers in the shop. While asking someone to write seems like we are pushing them off, the reality is that is because we want to make sure we are not going to miss anything.
I would also like to point out that there are always two sides to every story. We at times deal with very difficult and entitled customers, not the norm, but it does happen. In those cases, we are not able win. At the end of the day, think of us as people, not as a company trying to rip you off and we can work together instead of "what can you do for me?".
To speak to Drummer1990's complaint, we would never have said anything about whether or not you could have afforded. Not sure where that is coming from AT ALL. If we can't match or beat a price, it is probably because we can't, sorry but we are not in the business of loosing money to make everyone happy. Also thanks for calling us D!#*s, that speaks volumes.
In trying times like these, it's good to have a little understanding and patience. I am in no way saying that the ball wasn't dropped either, we all make mistakes, but please remember, that there are always two sides to the story.
If there is anything else I can clarify for the group I would be happy to do so.