Drum Dials

SiGGY

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I use it because I too am tone deaf. My '68 Ludwigs are set like Doubleroll's. Nice middle of the road sound.
I’m with you, nice middle of the road. Whatever tension reading I have the batter head set on I lower the resonate head 2 numbers lower and this sounds the best to me.
 

lrod1707

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I keep seeing tension and torque mentioned as to what a drum dial is reading. Isn't the drum dial giving a reading of deflection? The numbers themselves do not correlate to a specific unit or scale of measurement but can provide a repeatable result.
That's what I have understood but the numbers are a reflection of tension (not torque, the Evans torque key measures torque). I just can't figure exactly how they get that number and what it translates to. I'm starting to believe that it's "just a number" that indicates some sort of tension setting but with no exact scientific values and in the end, like you said it's repeatable. Maybe I'm wrong. Actually, I'm most likely wrong. LOL!
 

lrod1707

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That's the thing... I use a DD and it's not linear. When you get close to the 90's there's very little movement on the DD whilst there may be large changes in tuning. Is the Tama Watch linear or more accurate at higher tuning?
I doubt it, it's mechanical just like the Drum dial and I'm sure it has limitations as well. Something fully digital with a sensor of sorts might not have that limitation. I know the Tune-bot is digital but you can't measure tension because it's simply like a microphone that picks up Hertz and note measurements. It would be interesting to know if the Tune-bot has limitations in terms of how far up in the Hertz scale would it read.
 

Gunnellett

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That's what I have understood but the numbers are a reflection of tension (not torque, the Evans torque key measures torque). I just can't figure exactly how they get that number and what it translates to. I'm starting to believe that it's "just a number" that indicates some sort of tension setting but with no exact scientific values and in the end, like you said it's repeatable. Maybe I'm wrong. Actually, I'm most likely wrong. LOL!
I'm with you. I think the numbers are just numbers which is really all I need.
 

Rock Salad

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I just learned from this thread that "one turn" means 180 degrees. I was wondering why peoples explanations of where they tune sounded so off when I tried them.
Considering buying drum dial maybe, I def would like to try one
 

lrod1707

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I just learned from this thread that "one turn" means 180 degrees. I was wondering why peoples explanations of where they tune sounded so off when I tried them.
Considering buying drum dial maybe, I def would like to try one
Don't feel bad. When I started on the forum same thing happened to me. Wow and I just noticed you joined 6 days before me, funny! Come on to the forum daily if you can and read, read read!! And post too, post all the questions you have. Lots of lingo in drums. I've learned tons here. This is the only forum that I have joined and have continued (on a daily basis) to be part of. I look forward to it everyday. The issue with things like that "one turn" is that when you join a community you end up learning everything that everybody has to offer and eventually you decode what everybody says and means. Back in the day, 80's and 90's (pre internet) information was limited to your teacher and whomever you met at the local drum shop. That's my experience anyways. Now you can take in everything that everyone here knows (including the drum language).
 

franke

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RE: "tension" vs. "torque" - it seems that I was interchanging these terms. When I said "torque" I was referring to how tight the tension rod was, but yes, the Drum Dial is measuring the relative tension of the head, not how tight the tension rod is, despite the fact that in order to increase the tension of the head, one must first tighten the tension rod, and to achieve even tension, one must, presumably, tighten the tension rods evenly.

Why is it that there never seems to be a physicist around when you need one?
 

mfryed2112

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I recently got one that is brand new with a kit that I bought to flip , I have not used it to town yet but when I ran around my snare drum I could not believe how close I had everything tensionEd, my toms sound great but they are way off from lug to lug which is very surprising when I consider how good they sound. So for 10 x 14 and 16 x 18 six ply Ludwig toms what numbers would you use, would you stick with the 75/75 for starting? I have always been the type to go slightly tighter on the bottom head
 

bigbeat

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I have a TuneBot and a Drum Dial. I now use the TuneBot exclusively. As has been mentioned, there are two caveats using the TuneBot: the head must be struck the exact same distance from each tension rod, and the head must be struck with the same force. The closer to the tension rod, the higher the pitch will be. The harder the stroke, the more overtones will be created. These can fool the TuneBot. So the guy who posted about the hypothetical device to strike the head at the same distance and force actually has a good idea!
 

PerfectImposter

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Why is it that there never seems to be a physicist around when you need one?
The drum dial is basically a spring scale. The numbers are just telling you how far the pin moves up in to the base. 0 being not at all and 100 (all the way around and back to 0) being all the way in. That distance has a linear relationship with the amount of force the head is applying on the pin. However, to calculate the tension is a much more complicated formula, but that deflection distance is part of it, which is why the drum dial works.
 

zenstat

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B)
Why is it that there never seems to be a physicist around when you need one?
The drum dial is basically a spring scale. The numbers are just telling you how far the pin moves up in to the base. 0 being not at all and 100 (all the way around and back to 0) being all the way in. That distance has a linear relationship with the amount of force the head is applying on the pin. However, to calculate the tension is a much more complicated formula, but that deflection distance is part of it, which is why the drum dial works.
Yes. The Drum Dial (and the Tama Tension Watch) are dial indicators. What it measures is the deflection of the head under a little pressure. A distance measure. You can make a Drum Dial yourself by buying a dial indicator and adding the "hockey puck" on the bottom. I've seen somebody post photos of one he made.

Yes the Drum Dial and the Tama Tension Watch give different measurements. I've tried both on the same head. I haven't worked out a calibration between the two scales. I'm definitely more of a mathematician than a physicist or engineer. Once I determined the scales were different and there was a solution to lining them up, I stopped caring and moved on to other research. :icon_e_ugeek:

I use two fingers to standardize the distance out from the rim where I place my Tama Tension Watch. I haven't ever felt the need for some sort of extra guide.
 
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lrod1707

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I've been banned from the other two forums. Odd moderators there...
I didn't get banned but had a crappy experience. Everybody seemed like they thought they knew everything and weren't very welcoming, they were just plain rude. I came here and found the right people. (Welcoming people)
 

lrod1707

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I was thinking I should add a tune-bot, but I don't think I'll need it. Perhaps if I needed to tune them to specific notes!
Damn now after all this info I got interested in the Tune bot & note tuning. Something I had not contemplated before. And look what I had previously responded to you like an idiot: "I don't know brother, if one works I don't think you need the other". I'm biting my tongue now! You guys are a catalyst for money draining. I just ordered one!:eek:
 

MasterBlaster

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Hell, I may order one too. It's only money. Besides, when was the last ime you heard a drummer say "I have enough gear - I don't need anything else!"

However,, I am concerned about having to hit it just perfectly to make it work correctly.
 

lrod1707

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Hell, I may order one too. It's only money. Besides, when was the last ime you heard a drummer say "I have enough gear - I don't need anything else!"

However,, I am concerned about having to hit it just perfectly to make it work correctly.
Well I will let you know how that works out as soon as I get it. Arrives tomorrow!
I ordered the cheaper Tune-bot Gig $69.99. Doesn't keep preferred settings in memory as the more expensive one which I don't care about. I will just write them down. And the tune-bot phone app for recommended figures for your drums is free and goes hand in hand with the tune-bot so it's a win (I hope)
And yes I'm one of those that never says "I have enough gear".
 

lrod1707

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I have enough gear. I don't need anything else. I do need to sell some stuff. B)
Me too! I have stuff to sell buttttttt.....
I have a TuneBot and a Drum Dial. I now use the TuneBot exclusively. As has been mentioned, there are two caveats using the TuneBot: the head must be struck the exact same distance from each tension rod, and the head must be struck with the same force. The closer to the tension rod, the higher the pitch will be. The harder the stroke, the more overtones will be created. These can fool the TuneBot. So the guy who posted about the hypothetical device to strike the head at the same distance and force actually has a good idea!
From the videos I've seen, initially you strike with your drum hanging on it's mount so you can get the fundamental pitch with both heads open. Then take it off the mount and muffle the opposite side you want to tune so you can tune each lug (or leave it on the mount and muffle the opposite side). From what I have seen the reason you do this muffling is to avoid that overtone issue that you mention. Am I wrong with this or does it still have that issue that fools the device? None of the reviews I've seen mentions the issue that you are saying. But you are a real world user that has the experience with the device so I would like to know how it really works and the pitfalls.
 

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