DRUM Magazine Reveals Acoustic-Only Drummers are Piloting a Horse-and-Buggy in the Jet Age

richardh253

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Does anyone else see the irony in DRUM! Magazine making this claim two years ago, and now the magazine is defunct? It struck me as kinda funny. And I say this with only love and respect for my friends at DRUM! Magazine...

I worked for Simmons from 1985-1986, at the time when Dave Simmons predicted the end of acoustic drums within a few years... And I owned an SDSV and later an SDS7. I love everything about acoustic drums and can't imagine playing electronic drums again. It's like drinking warm beer through a straw...
One vote for warm beer:

"Barefoot girl sitting on the hood of a Dodge
Drinking warm beer in the soft summer rain"

That said, if I was out there playing today, in any professional capacity, I would have to learn something about electronics (I am clueless, but at 69 and retired, it hardly matters) and probably add a few things to supplement my acoustic kit, because that's the state of the art. I like the concept iof hybrid because it neutralizes the either/or of acoustic or electronic.

And yes, bye-bye DRUM magazine. Maybe they should have tried to hybrid as well..."Popular Electonics-DRUM" would have been a natural :)
 

bpaluzzi

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I'd love to add some pads just to have hand claps and finger snaps. Those are two such heavily used sounds.
The SPD-One "Electro" (the teal blue version) is great for this. It mounts off of a regular tom arm (9.5 to 12.7 will all fit) and can be battery powered or via a standard Roland/Boss 9V guitar pedal power supply. 1/4" output, 22 very usable onboard sounds w/ 1 "slot" for a user uploaded sound (via USB), knobs to select the sound, adjust the pitch/tuning, add fx (reverb or delay), and adjust volume (no menu diving!)

 

Drum Gear Review

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Um, no it's not funny. Anyone who knows me (and even if you don't) knows I'm not making light of anyone losing their job. I know the people at DRUM! Magazine and my attempt at humor and sarcasm was not aimed at them. I was pointing out the irony, and using my own personal experience working for Simmons during the heyday of electronic drums. I thought that was clear, but maybe not, so hopefully that clarifies it.

I didn't actually read the article - just VB's post. My comment was based on the title:

DRUM Magazine Reveals Acoustic-Only Drummers are Piloting a Horse-and-Buggy in the Jet Age​


But that title doesn't appear anywhere in the article. The piece simply educates about and advocates for incorporating electronics into acoustic drum setups. It doesn't include any of the confrontational tone of VB's post. Seems like your little barb should be pointed at VB's framing of the contents rather than the publication itself, no?

I'm glad you know the people at Drum! and call them friends. I do too. I wrote there for 10 years and was heartbroken to see it fold the way it did.

And it's not that your post wasn't clear. I just found it tacky, that's all. Saying love and respect while having a chuckle at the expense of a defunct business that was beloved by many isn't a terrible thing to do, but don't be surprised if someone says something to you about it.

Be well.
 

dcrigger

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But that title doesn't appear anywhere in the article. The piece simply educates about and advocates for incorporating electronics into acoustic drum setups. It doesn't include any of the confrontational tone of VB's post. Seems like your little barb should be pointed at VB's framing of the contents rather than the publication itself, no?
I think we need to keep in mind that these kind of misstatements and the misunderstanding that follow are just par for the course when we're trying to discuss the underlying topic - while constantly having to dance between the actual article and VB's National Enquirer-style take on it.

And to be clear, in this case, the title just isn't controversial - it was an editorialized exaggeration - far beyond anything the article even began to imply - let alone actually print.

And why? I guess to produce the mayhem that ensues... that's the best I can figure anyway.

Personally I'm trying to learn that the best way to deal wit this is the same way I deal with National Enquire.... I don't pick it. I don't read. I don't even look at the cover. Hoping that if the reply count were to go down - the problem would become moot.
 

Vistalite Black

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I think we need to keep in mind that these kind of misstatements and the misunderstanding that follow are just par for the course when we're trying to discuss the underlying topic - while constantly having to dance between the actual article and VB's National Enquirer-style take on it.

And to be clear, in this case, the title just isn't controversial - it was an editorialized exaggeration - far beyond anything the article even began to imply - let alone actually print.

And why? I guess to produce the mayhem that ensues... that's the best I can figure anyway.

Personally I'm trying to learn that the best way to deal wit this is the same way I deal with National Enquire.... I don't pick it. I don't read. I don't even look at the cover. Hoping that if the reply count were to go down - the problem would become moot.
Dcrigger is absolutely wrong (again) on two counts: 1. My Horse-and-Buggy-to-Jet-Age headline is absolutely supported by the article’s opening anecdote about Herbie Hancock’s musical leap from acoustic-only pianos to electronic and all the musical opportunities he opened up (ie.“Rockit”) by putting aside his previous belief that electronics were an unneeded gimmick. Quoting the article
“He continues to lead the pack of incorporating technology in music, typically getting first dibs on the latest keyboards and gadgets. That singular moment at the hybrid electrified acoustic Rhodes piano (in 1967!) altered his path, and he’s been utilizing electronics for over 50 years now … be like Herbie (Hancock) and open your mind to new possibilities in music.”

If you’re failing to learn the lesson Herbie did 50 years ago, you’re inarguably clinging to the conventions of a far distant past. Voila, an accurate headline is birthed.

2. Despite his fulminating to the contrary, Dcrigger comments on Vistalite Black threads all the time — usually with thousands of words in response. In some cases, he gets so wound up when proven wrong that he’ll randomly post ice skating videos (as happened earlier in this very thread)!
 

Vistalite Black

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I think we need to keep in mind that these kind of misstatements and the misunderstanding that follow are just par for the course when we're trying to discuss the underlying topic - while constantly having to dance between the actual article and VB's National Enquirer-style take on it.

And to be clear, in this case, the title just isn't controversial - it was an editorialized exaggeration - far beyond anything the article even began to imply - let alone actually print.

And why? I guess to produce the mayhem that ensues... that's the best I can figure anyway.

Personally I'm trying to learn that the best way to deal wit this is the same way I deal with National Enquire.... I don't pick it. I don't read. I don't even look at the cover. Hoping that if the reply count were to go down - the problem would become moot.
Dcrigger is absolutely wrong (again) on two counts: 1. My Horse-and-Buggy-to-Jet-Age headline is absolutely supported by the article’s opening anecdote about Herbie Hancock’s musical leap from acoustic-only pianos to electronic instruments and all the musical opportunities he opened up (ie.“Rockit”) by putting aside his previous belief that electronics were an unneeded gimmick. Quoting the article
“He continues to lead the pack of incorporating technology in music, typically getting first dibs on the latest keyboards and gadgets. That singular moment at the hybrid electrified acoustic Rhodes piano (in 1967!) altered his path, and he’s been utilizing electronics for over 50 years now … be like Herbie (Hancock) and open your mind to new possibilities in music.”

If you’re failing to learn the lesson Herbie did 50 years ago, you’re inarguably clinging to the conventions of a far distant past. Voila an accurate headline is birthed.

2. Despite his fulminating to the contrary, Dcrigger comments on Vistalite Black threads all the time — usually with thousands of words in response. In some cases, he gets so wound up when proven wrong that he’ll randomly post ice skating videos (as happened earlier in this very thread)!
 

JimmyM

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Sometimes I think people really are rooting for the machines to rise up against us.

In the same way that electric guitars CAN sound like acoustics with the right pickup, it's never quite right to me, so I'd prefer the real thing when I want an acoustic sound, and I think people with E-kits are missing out when they don't go a little nuts with them and go for weird and wretched tones. But I get it entirely...does help with mixes and schlep.
 

dcrigger

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Dcrigger is absolutely wrong (again) on two counts: 1. My Horse-and-Buggy-to-Jet-Age headline is absolutely supported by the article’s opening anecdote about Herbie Hancock’s musical leap from acoustic-only pianos to electronic instruments and all the musical opportunities he opened up (ie.“Rockit”) by putting aside his previous belief that electronics were an unneeded gimmick. Quoting the article
“He continues to lead the pack of incorporating technology in music, typically getting first dibs on the latest keyboards and gadgets. That singular moment at the hybrid electrified acoustic Rhodes piano (in 1967!) altered his path, and he’s been utilizing electronics for over 50 years now … be like Herbie (Hancock) and open your mind to new possibilities in music.”

Again - I've no problem with anything in the article... and have applied it's advice throughout my entire career. Not just in owning and being versed in the use of technology in drumming since the dawn of it's existence - but in many other musical "possibilities" left unexplored by many drummers... speaking primarily of odd meters, but also in no limiting genre choices, being able to really sight read... Nothing unique - I have a lot of company amongst my peers in seeking out these skills - basically never leaving any trend ignored, any pocket of drumming expression unexamined (if not, passably mastered) - being always open to all possibilities.

Why? Because it's near impossible to maintain a multi-decade career as a pro without approaching it that. I'm not talking occasionally play-for-money pro - I'm talking pay-all-of-the-bills, no day-job type pro.
If you’re failing to learn the lesson Herbie did 50 years ago, you’re inarguably clinging to the conventions of a far distant past. Voila an accurate headline is birthed.
Well not really - you had the material for an accurate headline - but as usually insisted on spinning it into being oh-so-much-more dramatic. Which again, as usually, loaded it with a bunch of not true - that wasn't in the article - nor was implied by the article. You slathered it with your biases - leaving it far from accurate.

This is even compounded when we consider - your lead-in line immediately following your title -

"Face it, the traditional drum set is way behind the capabilities of a hybrid — which is why most pros (under 60) have gone hybrid. If we resist change, will acoustic players become extinct? "

So much is revealed here....

1. Your limited appreciation/knowledge of what the professional drumming community consists of.

You just pull this presumption that "most pros (under 60) have gone hybrid" out of your rear with absolutely nothing in the article supporting it. And no other evidence offered as well.

2. Your obsessive ageism (which come up thread after thread).

I actually know - personally - a few dozen drumming pros over 60 - do you??? So as I always try to do, I'll speak about myself and other players from first-hand knowledge (from having actually worked with or talked to them about this). And I don't know a single one of those - that in their work over the years has delved into and used electronics in their kits.

Do even realize that anyone that did in work in the studios throughout the 80's (and maybe longer) had to have, what we called.... A Rack. Typically a rolling rack-mount case the size of a small refrigerator - that housed their pad-to-midi convertor, maybe a Simmons brain, certainly at least on rack-mount sampler (Akai/Roland) - probably a pull out shelf with a drum machine on it - and not just a mixer, but all of the wiring and custom jack panels so individual outputs could be pulled from everything.

Of course - realize this was to have on hand - at every session - a full on, capable of anything, hybrid kit available at all times....

And everyone had them - JR, Vinnie, Erskine, Harvey Mason, Steve Schaffer, Ralph Humphrey, John Hernandez, Denny Fongheiser, Keltner, everyone had them....

And hmm... not let's think.... that would've been the 80's - so how old do you think those player's are?

You talk about these guys like they are resisting change - and the fact is (in your ignorance) you don't realize that the majority of real pros have long ago addressed the issue of electronics, hybrid kits - what they are good for and what they aren't - when to use them and when not to - and have all of that information, knowledge and experience filed away with all of the other stuff that know how to do, know how to play, and know what to use for whatever the music needs and/or the job requires.

But you prattle like some millennial exposing the virtues of vinyl records like you've made some sort of important discovery. Well hate to burst your bubble junior, but when you're talking about "most pros".... WE addressed this issue years ago - dived in headfirst - then realized it drum electronics are a world changers (there were idiots screaming that claim back then to). So not, not a game change - just one more very useful tool that unlike SD, SD and HiHat doesn't apply to every gig - but is useful where appropriate.

So again catch up - you're talking about this stuff like some teenage boy that just copped his first feel and thinking he's personally just invented sex. Sorry to break it to you, but when you are addressing "most pros" - you're actually addressing mature adults with obviously a bit more experience in the subject.

And of course even Drum! would've never wrote the slam that you wrote - because A) they know their history and B) they know they aren't writing to pros ... but rather to novices.

And then you go and think you can use an article like this as a club to lord over experienced pro drummers with???? Get real with the this clownish nonsense.

So please - quit trying to think that you know enough to expand on what these magazines have to say.... because obviously you don't.

And with that I'm done - have at it - talk your trash - besmirch the pro work I've done and shared here to illustrate things (hmmm, have you ever shared any work or playing you've done????) Anyway, I'm out - and I'm blocking your posts because life's too short to constantly be bombarded with such ignorant nonsense.
 

pgm554

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If you can find one, the Alesis Percpad, very small, so easy to add to acoustic kit, 25 sounds, robust, under $100 in 2014.
Looks current Alesis multipads are a lot more money probably with more functions.

As Whitten says, understanding computers, music software, triggering samples and loops, is a given for young players.

I would guess more kids are learning on electric kits anyway?
I was using an Octa pad ,Akail digital sampler and and Simmons SDS 1 back in the 80's.

I miss some of the creativity,but like electronics in general,short shelf life.
The SDS1 was pretty neat.
 
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Whitten

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We have full coverage of the Glastonbury music festival on the BBC every summer.
The amount of drummers not incorporating electronics (clicks, laptops or trigger pads like the SPD-SX) is very few = hardly any.
 

bigbonzo

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Again - I've no problem with anything in the article... and have applied it's advice throughout my entire career. Not just in owning and being versed in the use of technology in drumming since the dawn of it's existence - but in many other musical "possibilities" left unexplored by many drummers... speaking primarily of odd meters, but also in no limiting genre choices, being able to really sight read... Nothing unique - I have a lot of company amongst my peers in seeking out these skills - basically never leaving any trend ignored, any pocket of drumming expression unexamined (if not, passably mastered) - being always open to all possibilities.

Why? Because it's near impossible to maintain a multi-decade career as a pro without approaching it that. I'm not talking occasionally play-for-money pro - I'm talking pay-all-of-the-bills, no day-job type pro.

Well not really - you had the material for an accurate headline - but as usually insisted on spinning it into being oh-so-much-more dramatic. Which again, as usually, loaded it with a bunch of not true - that wasn't in the article - nor was implied by the article. You slathered it with your biases - leaving it far from accurate.

This is even compounded when we consider - your lead-in line immediately following your title -

"Face it, the traditional drum set is way behind the capabilities of a hybrid — which is why most pros (under 60) have gone hybrid. If we resist change, will acoustic players become extinct? "

So much is revealed here....

1. Your limited appreciation/knowledge of what the professional drumming community consists of.

You just pull this presumption that "most pros (under 60) have gone hybrid" out of your rear with absolutely nothing in the article supporting it. And no other evidence offered as well.

2. Your obsessive ageism (which come up thread after thread).

I actually know - personally - a few dozen drumming pros over 60 - do you??? So as I always try to do, I'll speak about myself and other players from first-hand knowledge (from having actually worked with or talked to them about this). And I don't know a single one of those - that in their work over the years has delved into and used electronics in their kits.

Do even realize that anyone that did in work in the studios throughout the 80's (and maybe longer) had to have, what we called.... A Rack. Typically a rolling rack-mount case the size of a small refrigerator - that housed their pad-to-midi convertor, maybe a Simmons brain, certainly at least on rack-mount sampler (Akai/Roland) - probably a pull out shelf with a drum machine on it - and not just a mixer, but all of the wiring and custom jack panels so individual outputs could be pulled from everything.

Of course - realize this was to have on hand - at every session - a full on, capable of anything, hybrid kit available at all times....

And everyone had them - JR, Vinnie, Erskine, Harvey Mason, Steve Schaffer, Ralph Humphrey, John Hernandez, Denny Fongheiser, Keltner, everyone had them....

And hmm... not let's think.... that would've been the 80's - so how old do you think those player's are?

You talk about these guys like they are resisting change - and the fact is (in your ignorance) you don't realize that the majority of real pros have long ago addressed the issue of electronics, hybrid kits - what they are good for and what they aren't - when to use them and when not to - and have all of that information, knowledge and experience filed away with all of the other stuff that know how to do, know how to play, and know what to use for whatever the music needs and/or the job requires.

But you prattle like some millennial exposing the virtues of vinyl records like you've made some sort of important discovery. Well hate to burst your bubble junior, but when you're talking about "most pros".... WE addressed this issue years ago - dived in headfirst - then realized it drum electronics are a world changers (there were idiots screaming that claim back then to). So not, not a game change - just one more very useful tool that unlike SD, SD and HiHat doesn't apply to every gig - but is useful where appropriate.

So again catch up - you're talking about this stuff like some teenage boy that just copped his first feel and thinking he's personally just invented sex. Sorry to break it to you, but when you are addressing "most pros" - you're actually addressing mature adults with obviously a bit more experience in the subject.

And of course even Drum! would've never wrote the slam that you wrote - because A) they know their history and B) they know they aren't writing to pros ... but rather to novices.

And then you go and think you can use an article like this as a club to lord over experienced pro drummers with???? Get real with the this clownish nonsense.

So please - quit trying to think that you know enough to expand on what these magazines have to say.... because obviously you don't.

And with that I'm done - have at it - talk your trash - besmirch the pro work I've done and shared here to illustrate things (hmmm, have you ever shared any work or playing you've done????) Anyway, I'm out - and I'm blocking your posts because life's too short to constantly be bombarded with such ignorant nonsense.
Amen to that! I totally agree!
 

JDA

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wait. some people go into music as a career? come on man, that can't be true.
a career based on Luck? right time right place and connections and.. geeze whew thats' riskier than ..hi wire circus walker
 

BennyK

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Horse and buggy ? Natural , wholesome , no carbon footprint .
 
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Vistalite Black

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Dcrigger: I know you've sworn off reading Vistalite Black's posts, but I'm confident someone will pass this on:

Here are the simple facts: Vistalite Black said in the original post "most pros (drummers under 60) have gone hybrid."

Yesterday, in this same thread, Dcrigger finally got mad enough to write "The majority of real pros have long ago addressed ... when to use (hybrid kits) and when not to."

We agree!!! I can understand why that's so painful to Dcrigger to admit most pros have used/are using electronics their set ups, but there he goes, with a flurry of name-calling and assertions that a non-pro can't possibly recognize what he sees with his own eyes.

For those still paying attention, Dcrigger's position has evolved substantially since he wrote on April 5, 2020 (Post 43 on this thread): "Most pros are still not using hybrid kits most of the time. Why? My guess would be 3 pronged... 1) they're pointless in the studio most of the time (between sample replacement, overdubbing and just straight-up the drum programming - a hybrid kit rarely serves much purpose in the studio) 2) for regular gigging, they are a huge extra pain - so often deemed too much work for too little benefit and 3) tons of music still simply doesn't need it - not live (and I've already talked about the studio)."

Yet, next time you see a drummer performing, the odds are higher than 50-50 that the drummer will be armed with at least a drum pad on their kits (making it a hybrid).
 


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