Drumming's Biggest Crab Apples: A Top 50 List in Progress

[Pat A Flafla]

There is a huge difference between your money manager and a pro musician, Hollywood stars, sports stars, and entertainers. These public figures feed off of fan energy and vice-a-versa. It’s human nature. We scream and shout and cheer at a concert and we all get caught up in the excitement and energy, including the musician. That doesn’t happen with your money manager, unless she gets you a great return on your investment! Lol.

So if a musician just walks off the stage all stone faced after a killer show and doesn’t play into the audiences energy, it doesn’t work. He/she has to get into it, they have to acknowledge the fans, and yes, they owe them some love back. That’s public life, they need to deal with it, or they’re toast.

Ever hear of a guy named Neil Peart?

And anyway, what does the energy have to do with owing fans schmoozy free autograph time if you see them in a restaurant or something?

 

[Houndog]

Ever hear of a guy named Neil Peart?

And anyway, what does the energy have to do with owing fans schmoozy free autograph time if you see them in a restaurant or something?

Neil doesn’t walk off “stone faced “
He gives a nice smiling hearty wave then takes off .

 

[Houndog]

The responsibility is to provide excellent entertainment for the fans' money, and the same responsibility every human being has to be civil to other humans--*not* free autographs and a back rub, or whatever non-musical services people feel "owed." The woman who manages my mutual fund has been doing an excellent job. I might say I'm a fan, but I'm not going to hang around outside her office building and accost her for posed selfies with metal horn-hands. If I wrote her a thank you note, it would be nice if her secretary at least e-forged a "glad you're happy" response within say 4 months. But not a deal breaker. Even if she's rude, she still gets to continue managing some of my retirement money because I approve of her work.

Bahahahahhhhahhahaaa, Apples and Oranges

 

[John DeChristopher]

What's the point of this? Besides potentially smearing peoples' reputations? Isn't everyone exhausted from negativity? I sure am...

 

[Pat A Flafla]

Neil doesn’t walk off “stone faced “
He gives a nice smiling hearty wave then takes off .

Right, but this thread is talking about offstage behavior, and Neil actively avoided any and all fan interactions. He just didn't have it in him. He wanted to play the drums and then be left alone.

 

[Pat A Flafla]

I think it's weird that this thread mutated from drummers who are rude to nice people, into drummers who don't stage dive into the crowd and start making out with them. Weird.

 

[Tornado]

I think it's weird that this thread mutated from drummers who are rude to nice people, into drummers who don't stage dive into the crowd and start making out with them. Weird.

That's the nature of modern debate. Jump to the extremes to make your point.

 

[Pat A Flafla]

That's the nature of modern debate. Jump to the extremes to make your point.

Sort of, but I also think some people can't identify with a drummer living for the thrill of creating music on stage with excellent musicians but at the same time not wanting to socialize with just everybody who says "You're great!".
This post is pretty much just me paraphrasing this song:

Feeling like this isn't being a crab apple, it's being an introvert, which is not a crime against fans.

 

[Matched Gripper]

I saw Oz Noy a few years ago.Jimmy Haslip on bass,Dave Weckl on drums.They did 2 sets.
Between sets,Oz sat at a table selling and autographing CD's.I bought one and he signed it.
A line had formed off to the side.They weren't lined up to buy a cd or ask Oz guitar questions.
So Oz asked...why are you people lined up...what are you waiting for? Many in line said "Dave Weckl"
He replied at normal conversation level..."don't hold your breath".
He never came out...but Haslip did.

Just chiming in to say I love Oz Noy’s playing!

 

[Matched Gripper]

What's the point of this? Besides potentially smearing peoples' reputations? Isn't everyone exhausted from negativity? I sure am...

Did you miss post #60?

 

[chappy]

Just judging from Tommy Igoe’s social media posts over the years, he seems like a pretty close-minded and judgemental individual.

On the other end, I have met Rod Morgenstein, Morgan Rose and Todd Suchermann and all seemed approachable and receptive. Steve Smith and Dave Weckl somewhat less.

I respectfully disagree about Tommy Igoe, I have found him very approachable and eager to teach. He just does not put up with any bullcrap on his social media pages. Nor should he. His page, his rules. A refreshing approach honestly. YMMV.

 

[John DeChristopher]

Did you miss post #60?

Who knows. I stopped reading after a few pages.

 

[Matched Gripper]

Who knows. I stopped reading after a few pages.

Just saying it’s not all negative.

 

[jaymandude]

What's the point of this? Besides potentially smearing peoples' reputations? Isn't everyone exhausted from negativity? I sure am...

I'm going to take the high road therapist route on this and say it's possibly more about disappointment than anything else. But for sure airing 3rd hand stories and one's personal grievances on a public forum is a little tacky and uncalled for. Otherwise known as jive or weak ass poopy

 

[old_K_ride]

I respectfully disagree about Tommy Igoe, I have found him very approachable and eager to teach. He just does not put up with any bullcrap on his social media pages. Nor should he. His page, his rules. A refreshing approach honestly. YMMV.

his "hard ass" persona is tiresome...

 

[Tubesox]

surprised to see Marky on this list - have never heard anything about him other than him being cool

 

[Buffalo_drummer]

Just judging from Tommy Igoe’s social media posts over the years, he seems like a pretty close-minded and judgemental individual.

On the other end, I have met Rod Morgenstein, Morgan Rose and Todd Suchermann and all seemed approachable and receptive. Steve Smith and Dave Weckl somewhat less.

I find Igoe’s posts refreshingly honest. It may offend some people which is refreshing

 

[KevinD]

In terms of meeting these drummers there are generally two buckets that things fall into: Meeting them as a fan at a concert, clinic or bumping into them at the coffee shop etc., and then when you meet them as a peer where you are considered "on the inside" or part of their business. Chances are the person is going to react much differently toward you in each situation.

I've heard some negative stories about Dave Weckl from those who've interacted with him on the "fan" side, but I have a friend who was a Yamaha endorser. She was young, just coming into the scene and he was very helpful to her in making sure she had the right connections at Yamaha as she was heading over Japan on a tour. He also put her in touch with contractors that could offer work. At one point he had gotten her queued up to sub for him on a Mike Stern gig at 55 Bar (didn't happen -he made the gig). She noted that he was kind of direct and straightforward and maybe not the life of the party all the time, but he was a good guy toward her. (and he wasn't doing any of that for an ulterior motive either).

I've been fortunate to know, and be friends with a decent number of "name drummers" over the years and in general they have all been pretty cool... and I'm a no name for sure. I have found that drummers are a pretty tightly knit and generous group, especially in dealing with their peers (i.e Buddy and Louis B seemed to get on pretty good).

I'm fairly sure that if a person was at Pro Drum Shop in Hollywood and a famous player walked in, their behavior would be different than if you were were waiting in line for an autograph after a gig or similar, because just by being there you are part of that fraternity, at least on some level.

Dealing with the public, especially when some of them can be over the top in adulation must be pretty hard.

Years and years ago in LA. Vinnie Colaiuta was playing with a trio at a place in Hollywood (Catalina's maybe). The gig was at night but I stopped in during the afternoon to get my ticket. I went and sat at the bar and had a beer. The Dodger game was on. At the time the Dodgers had the worst fielding percentage in the majors leagues... they were terrible on a Bad News Bears level. The bartender and I were chuckling at their ineptitude. About 2 minutes later, the door opens and in comes Vinnie loading in his own gear. He knew the bartender so he sat down and ordered a coke and started chatting with him and like any regular guy at a bar joined in on the Dodgers conversation. I didn't bring up anything to do with the gig or drumming, or even let on that I knew who he was, we just talked about the Dodgers, who, in two minutes made 2 really bad plays that made the week's "lowlight reels." It was comical, just 3 guys sitting at a bar talking about baseball.

About 5 minutes later, 3 or 4 younger guys in their early 20s walked in... they see Vinnie at the bar and get excited.. While VC was in mid conversation with the bartender they came over and butted in and started bombarding him with a bunch of drumming questions. One kid handed him a stick and wanted to see his grip... VC was being very polite and accommodating, but he cut the conversation short and said "hey guys, I gotta go set up, sorry" (while politely declining their offer of help). Obviously it was a big thing for them (me too really) to see VC there, but they kind of ruined his vibe, he was enjoying his time kicking back and busting on the Dodgers. So I would imagine if stuff like that happened to him or someone like Weckl or Peart a couple of hundred times a year that they would have to set their boundaries, and sometimes that comes off colder that the excited fan wants it to.

I see Micky Dolenz and Peter Criss were added to the list.. Met them both as a fan, Mickey Dolenz was pretty friendly and gregarious and Peter Criss (long after KISS fame) was very cool as well, so I can't say that my experiences would add them to that list.

 

[Vistalite Black]

In terms of meeting these drummers there are generally two buckets that things fall into: Meeting them as a fan at a concert, clinic or bumping into them at the coffee shop etc., and then when you meet them as a peer where you are considered "on the inside" or part of their business. Chances are the person is going to react much differently toward you in each situation.

I've heard some negative stories about Dave Weckl from those who've interacted with him on the "fan" side, but I have a friend who was a Yamaha endorser. She was young, just coming into the scene and he was very helpful to her in making sure she had the right connections at Yamaha as she was heading over Japan on a tour. He also put her in touch with contractors that could offer work. At one point he had gotten her queued up to sub for him on a Mike Stern gig at 55 Bar (didn't happen -he made the gig). She noted that he was kind of direct and straightforward and maybe not the life of the party all the time, but he was a good guy toward her. (and he wasn't doing any of that for an ulterior motive either).

I've been fortunate to know, and be friends with a decent number of "name drummers" over the years and in general they have all been pretty cool... and I'm a no name for sure. I have found that drummers are a pretty tightly knit and generous group, especially in dealing with their peers (i.e Buddy and Louis B seemed to get on pretty good).

I'm fairly sure that if a person was at Pro Drum Shop in Hollywood and a famous player walked in, their behavior would be different than if you were were waiting in line for an autograph after a gig or similar, because just by being their you are part of that fraternity, at least on some level.

Dealing with the public, especially when some of them can be over the top in adulation must be pretty hard.

Years and years ago in LA. Vinnie Colaiuta was playing with a trio at a place in Hollywood (Catalina's maybe). The gig was at night but I stopped in during the afternoon to get my ticket. I went and sat at the bar and had a beer. The Dodger game was on. At the time the Dodgers had the worst fielding percentage in the majors leagues... they were terrible on a Bad News Bears level. The bartender and I were chuckling at their ineptitude. About 2 minutes later, the door opens and in comes Vinnie loading in his own gear. He knew the bartender so he sat down and ordered a coke and started chatting with him and like any regular guy at a bar joined in on the Dodgers conversation. I didn't bring up anything to do with the gig or drumming, or even let on that I knew who he was, we just talked about the Dodgers, who in two minutes made 2 really bad plays that made the week's "lowlight reels." It was comical, just 3 guys sitting at a bar talking about baseball.

About 5 minutes later, 3 or 4 younger guys in their early 20s walked in... they see Vinnie at the bar and get excited.. While VC was in mid conversation with the bartender they came over and butted in and started bombarding him with a bunch of drumming questions. One kid handed him a stick and wanted to see his grip... VC was being very polite and accommodating, but he cut the conversation short and said "hey guys, I gotta go set up, sorry" (while politely declining their offer of help). Obviously it was a big thing for them (me too really) to see VC there, but they kind of ruined his vibe, he was enjoying his time kicking back and busting on the Dodgers. So I would imagine if stuff like that happened to him or someone like Weckl or Peart a couple of hundred times a year that they would have to set their boundaries, and sometimes that comes off colder that the excited fan wants it to.

I see Micky Dolenz and Peter Criss were added to the list.. Met them both as a fan, Mickey Dolenz was pretty friendly and gregarious and Peter Criss (long after KISS fame) was very cool as well, so I can't say that my experiences would add them to that list.

Again, this is a list of drummers who may, on occasion, be a little cranky!

THE LAST ANGRY MONKEE

You can't blame Micky Dolenz for being cranky. After all, he's sitting in a hotel room in Rochester, New York, where he's currently appearing in a production of that theatrical landmark Grease. Worse, he's got a cough and a touch of the flu that he's been unable to kick. He...

www.westword.com

When Peter Criss Sabotaged His ‘Last Chance’ With Kiss

Peter Criss put on a serious face and pretended he could read sheet music as he sabotaged the 1980 audition to keep his position in Kiss.

ultimateclassicrock.com

 

[Tcat]

I find Igoe’s posts refreshingly honest. It may offend some people which is refreshing

Respectfully, I understand we all interpret things differently but I find being offensive on social media to be part of what I don’t like about the medium and way too common.