Dual flat ride setup

phobucket

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Hi all,

First post here. I'm a bassist (main instrument) and aspiring drummer mostly playing jazz in a piano trio format. I love the Chick/Roy Haynes sound, but also love Paul Wertico double flat ride stuff with Metheny. I was thinking of getting an 18 or 19 inch flat for the left-hand ride and a larger 20 or 21 inch flat for the main ride.

So here's where I have a bunch of probably dumb questions.
Are those two sounds compatible (can I blend a Roy Haynes-ish cymbal with a more modern-sounding flat ride)?
Are there any rules of thumb for blending sizes in a setup like this? For instance, is it better to have a 2" difference in sizes between the two rides, or is 1" fine?
Is it okay to mix lathed and hammered cymbals or are there any other considerations about mixing cymbals?

I'm only aware of 4 flat rides for sale in my area, all of which are a little beyond my price range, so I'm thinking of buying used online, hopefully getting both cymbals for somewhere in the neighborhood of $500-$600.

Thanks for your help!
 

JDA

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the heavier you go in a flat ride the pingier (unless it's been "distressed" somehow on the top or bottom side)
So weight may be the blending between two factor
two different diameters say 18 and 20 would be nice too still watching the weight. Too low or too high being the extremes)
 

Seb77

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First you need to find one good flat ride for quiet jazz, meaning a light one, for example a 602; not an A Zildjian, most of these are heavy/pingy. Size difference doesn't matter as much with flats a with other cymbals imo. If you are just starting out compiling a jazz cymbal setup I would get a crashable ride (with a bell) to go with that for versatility, maybe a riveted cymbal.
 

DWSlingerland45

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There are no " rules" for blending cymbals by type/ brand / size etc....it's what you think sounds good and what the music needs ... I personally own a couple flats but have never set them up together. That being said I saw a band in Disney World in the lobby of the grand Floridian Resort ( just there for a drink and to check the place out lol) they were amazing and their drummer played a three cymbal set up consisting of two flats and a small crash and hats of course... I believe they were 20/18 the 20 had one rivet and the 18 had a pro mark sizzler chain on it... They were perfect together. The point is it fit the music..... once the tune starts any unpleasant overtones or lack of wash or any of the other myriad of complaints folks have about flats disappears into the music..... I'm very curious as to which way you decide to go with this.... Enjoy!
 

JDA

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usually the lowest priced found Used are the Traditional Istanbul and Tradition Bosphorus 20's.
Which I've owned or own and both lean towards the heavier pingier side just like an
an A Zildjian,

little difference at times.

this is nice

interesting

these always big dough (no pun)
 
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dboomer

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Sounds like my setup. I use a 18” 602 flat medium on my left (as my main ride) with a Masterwork 20” jazz pointer just above and overlapping it so I can quickly switch from the very dry ping to a more traditional ride. On my right side I have a 20” flat that started life as some kind of Sabian HH but was modified by Matt Bettis. So it is somewhat like the 602 flat but with a bit more wash and a bit less of the bell like quality of the 602.
 

Ionic

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To add to what has been said, a big difference in weight can lead to a big difference in volume/projection.This is true for the 602's that I have. Two flats with similar weights but different tonality might be worth considering.
 

JDA

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"there went my dream...."


gone like the wind...
(20/1771g/masters)
 
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phobucket

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Thanks for the helpful advice, all. There are definitely a few Bosphorus flats that have caught my eye.

@dboomer, What is a pointer? Is that the cymbal you hit and then choke real fast while you point at the audience with your stick? Love that move. ;)

I put a few messages out on CL ads for 602s and a Sabian royalty ride. Will see if anyone is willing to ship.
 

mtarrani

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Hi all,

First post here. I'm a bassist (main instrument) and aspiring drummer mostly playing jazz in a piano trio format. I love the Chick/Roy Haynes sound, but also love Paul Wertico double flat ride stuff with Metheny. I was thinking of getting an 18 or 19 inch flat for the left-hand ride and a larger 20 or 21 inch flat for the main ride.

So here's where I have a bunch of probably dumb questions.
Are those two sounds compatible (can I blend a Roy Haynes-ish cymbal with a more modern-sounding flat ride)?
Are there any rules of thumb for blending sizes in a setup like this? For instance, is it better to have a 2" difference in sizes between the two rides, or is 1" fine?
Is it okay to mix lathed and hammered cymbals or are there any other considerations about mixing cymbals?

I'm only aware of 4 flat rides for sale in my area, all of which are a little beyond my price range, so I'm thinking of buying used online, hopefully getting both cymbals for somewhere in the neighborhood of $500-$600.

Thanks for your help!
Check out some of the Soultone flat rides on Amazon. There are some deals still to be had. I have quite a few models from that brand, but for piano trio work I absolutely love the 19" Custom and 19" Vintage models. For something with a bit more definition I use a Latin model or Custom Brilliant (or the RA variant) flat (I have those in various sizes. I know that this isn't jazz, but you can get an idea about one of the models, the 19" Custom Flat, in this video. It's perfect for a lot of the jazz, blues, Americana and some classic rock I play:
 

mebeatee

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First off there are no dumb questions....just some dumb drummers....I can only speak for myself though....see below...
I have both 18" Sabian and 20" Zildjian flat rides. I like the 18" one the best as it has a nice tight ping. The 20" Zildjian has a loose lower ping that is fine for what it is. They don't really compliment each other enough to be part of a "set" of cymbals. The 20" Zildjian doesn't really fit in anywhere which is a good thing actually. I, as well as others, have different cymbal sets as well as drum sets.... It's also good to have a bunch of cymbals just for their own sound(s) sake as ya never know....
Anyway I also have a friend who has a Paiste 22" that is astounding. One of the best cymbals I've heard period. On the other hand another friend had a 24" Zildjian flat ride that was one of the worst.....
I stupidly passed, then procrastinated on a Stagg 22"........doh.....see....dumb drummer.
There ya....I go...
bt
 

mtarrani

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Hi all,

First post here. I'm a bassist (main instrument) and aspiring drummer mostly playing jazz in a piano trio format. I love the Chick/Roy Haynes sound, but also love Paul Wertico double flat ride stuff with Metheny. I was thinking of getting an 18 or 19 inch flat for the left-hand ride and a larger 20 or 21 inch flat for the main ride.

So here's where I have a bunch of probably dumb questions.
Are those two sounds compatible (can I blend a Roy Haynes-ish cymbal with a more modern-sounding flat ride)?
Are there any rules of thumb for blending sizes in a setup like this? For instance, is it better to have a 2" difference in sizes between the two rides, or is 1" fine?
Is it okay to mix lathed and hammered cymbals or are there any other considerations about mixing cymbals?

I'm only aware of 4 flat rides for sale in my area, all of which are a little beyond my price range, so I'm thinking of buying used online, hopefully getting both cymbals for somewhere in the neighborhood of $500-$600.

Thanks for your help!
For reference, the right side ride that I am playing in this clip is a 19" Soultone Latin flat ride. Also, I'll see if I can make a clip with me playing my Sabian 18" Flat Crystal Ride (Ed Thigpen signature model.) They no longer make that particular cymbal, but you can usually find one on Reverb at a decent price. Here is the Latin flat:

 
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phobucket

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I remember when I was in college in the late 90s, everyone wanted a Thigpen flat ride. Cool to hear the flats in another context. Thanks for posting, Mike.
 

NobleCooleyNut

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I have been very impressed with the two new flat ride offerings from Sabian . The 18” Chick Corea Royalty flat ride and the Dave Weckl 21” flat ride . Very different but compatible together . The 18 has more ping and the Weckl has a very woody click to the stick sound .
 

phobucket

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Funny you should say that. I just pulled the trigger on a used Chick Corea Royalty flat ride and I played 2 of the Weckl rides at Dub's Drum basement over the weekend. The Weckls are great rides (at least to my ears), but they are a bit out of my price range.


On my shortlist right now for the larger ride:
Paiste 602 20"
Paiste Signature 20"
Bosphorous New Orleans Flat 21" (this has me especially intrigued)
Bosphorous Traditional Flat 22"

Anything else I should be checking out?
 
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Pedal_Pusher

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I have a 22" Sabian Ed Thigpen Crystal ride that I bought at a PAS drum convention when they were first introduced. I can recommend experimenting with nylon tipped sticks on flat rides. I also have an 18" flat ride from Matt Nolan in Bath, England. It sounds amazing and is especially useful for those fancy Sunday morning brunch gigs where they want to see you but not hear you (I call them Sonic Wallpaper gigs). Good luck!
 

Deafmoon

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I’ve played flat rides from the late 70’s and I never miss not having a bell. A Zil 18 & 20, K Zil 20, Paiste 602 18, Paiste Traditional 18, Paiste Sound Formula 20. All great for various types of music. You can combine or not, completely up to you. UFIP used to make a flat ride that sounded great too, though I never owned that one. The Weckls are thin & have crashability, but I like that in an 18, not a 21”. People that say you can only use a flat ride for soft jazz, have not had the right flat ride for the music. I did a lot of club dates with a Zildjian 20” Flat ride and 5B sticks and would get amazing compliments from the audience.
 

multijd

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I agree that weight is a very significant factor in the sound. The lighter ones have the dry, woody ticking sound and the heavier ones have more of a ping. They work all favor a low overtone sound in the “wash” but again the pitch will rise as the weight goes up. I used a double flat setup for a few gigs. At that time I had an 18” Paiste 2002 (why did I sell that!!? Oh yeah yo finance my Bosphorus collection…) and a 20” Zildjian A Custom (very nice cymbal). I believe an 18 or 19 on the left and a 20 on the right would work great. Either or both could have rivets (2?) or a weight appropriate chain. There are so many great cymbals available right now but unfortunately most of them you really can’t try live until you actually purchase. The ones I have owned/tried out live, in the past that produce the most pleasing woody, ticking sound are:
18” & 20” 2002
18” 602 medium
20” 602
19” Bosphorus Masters series
20” K light Flat
20” A Custom
 

phobucket

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Thanks, everyone. I just picked up a Paiste Signature 20 Flat from another DFO member and was able to keep everything within my budget. You all, rock! Excited to get this new setup in play.
 

Sequimite

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I am using two flats for the first time. Bosphorus 19 Turk and 20 Antique. The 2060 gram 19 delivers a rich but focused ping and the 1800 gram 20 is a wobbler. The other cymbals are the lightest Turk hats and paper thin Antiques. They complement each other nicely and are versatile.
 
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