Dusty Springfield VS Buddy Rich | The Feud of 1966

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dcrigger

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I guess it depends on which side of that temper you are on, and how that temper is expressed.
Not really - expressing a temper is an act... and “seething resentment and cruelty” would be something used to explain the motivation behind that temper.... something that few if any people can even begin to know about another person.

A target of someone's hot-temper has no actually idea about what's behind that explosion of hot-temper - was it an out of control, expression of "seething resentment"? Was it a calculated move to adjust the power structure of the situation? Was it a tool used to instruct and guide?

My father was known to say to me "Keep acting like that and you won't be able to sit for a week" - and the the man never laid a hand on me his entire life.

I just don't get how so many today don't get this about Buddy... don't get that the bus tapes are no more than some big ego/small talent player getting their feeling hurt because "gee, Dad yelled at us" and so, couldn't run to his mommy, but still felt like saying "I'm telling"... like some 8 year old and figured out how to do so... by taking his (from all the behind the scenes stories I've heard) well deserved verbal ass kicking and made it public. Which is about the most whinny maneuver known to man. He knew he didn't have a legitimate gripe - or he would've taken it up with the union. No, he was just in "I'm telling" mode.

I'm sorry - but I'm literally about the most peace-loving, non-violent, liberal in every sense of the word person you could ever meet and I am just astounded by the number of grown adults that don't see through this nonsense for what it is.

Yes, Buddy was an old school tough task master.... well guess what, he isn't the only one. And it ain't that old school. It's called "you want to ride with the greats, then there's no excuses - period". It requires 110% all of the time, every time. "But I'm sick" "Tough" "But our plane was late, so we didn't get a decent soundcheck" "Tough" You get the idea - no excuses - full on - all the time.

And of course every person capable of functioning at that level isn't always up to it when they arrive. Because frankly, nothing prior to that can prepare you. So that's why we look at these positions as mentoring positions - when I started playing with Don Ellis. We weren't peers - he was my mentor. Same when I started with Burt Bacharach. And to a great degree, after 30 years, that role never really changed that much....

If I failed to live up to our agreement - there was no quarterly review, there's no being reporting to HR - there was a one on one ass chewing. And depending on the irresponsibility of my screw-up, they weren't always polite and un-heated.

Again, mentor...

Sheesh I just dumbfounded that this seems so confusing to some people. So many listen to the bus tapes and hear the intensity, the naughty words and don't spend one minute thinking about what he's saying and the context that he is saying it.

Sorry - but I just find it astounding.
 

Matched Gripper

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After listening to the "Band Tapes" I tend to think that her side probably has a ring of truth to it.
Why is that? Where does BR misrepresent the events? Further, where does DS admit that she assaulted BR, or explain the underlying cause for her assault? Lack of candor, omitting an important detail, under the circumstances, is no less dishonest than making a knowing false statement.
 

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The video read from an article verbatim. Back in those days journalism had some hard rules about verifying what was printed before it could be printed. My comment was my personal take, not some sort of vetting of the article. The article, given the stringent way journalism worked back in the period in question, is reason enough to believe its veracity. The side argument you made is based on my opinion, which is, well, an opinion.
Really? “Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper.” — Thomas Jefferson
 
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JDA

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melody Maker was a great news rag; had a stack of em. Not 66 but thru the 70s.
Good Premier drum advertisements in them too.
 
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Matched Gripper

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This has been corroborated in multiple books and articles. It’s bizarre to argue that such well-documented history didn’t happen.
Let’s also remember that Springfield in 1966 had charted 11 Top 40 hits in the UK — including a Number 1 (You Don’t Have to Say You Love Me). She was not as established in the U.S., but given that Rich never had a hit record, she was a significant draw and a well-known star who didn’t need to “gin up” headlines in Melody Maker.

For all of these reasons — and the fact Rich didn’t refute these stories — I believe Dusty.
So what? Where does BR deny DS’s account, and how does any of it justify assault?
 

JimmySticks

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Wow.
I was never crazy about Buddy's personality, but the ignorance and arrogance on display in that Douglas tape puts it over the top for me. What a jerk.
Buddy was a very complicated man. Most geniuses are.

To blow him off as "a jerk" without knowing his life and all of his idiosyncrasies really isn't fair. Do a deep dive into the man, his upbringing and life, and you might have a better understanding of him.
 

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So, a successful woman who complains about poor treatment is or was automatically assumed to be a witch? That's an amazing statement.

FWIW; Buddy Rich's New York Times obituary started with "Buddy Rich, a hot-tempered musician who drummed his way through vaudeville shows and big bands, died yesterday at UCLA Medical Center in Los Angeles. He was 69 years old."

It's a shame his genius was so overshadowed by seething resentment and cruelty.
Dood! That is a laughably ridiculous comment! But, I understand your compulsion to make it!
 

jansara

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I just don't get how so many today don't get this about Buddy... don't get that the bus tapes are no more than some big ego/small talent player getting their feeling hurt because "gee, Dad yelled at us" and so, couldn't run to his mommy, but still felt like saying "I'm telling"... like some 8 year old and figured out how to do so... by taking his (from all the behind the scenes stories I've heard) well deserved verbal ass kicking and made it public. Which is about the most whinny maneuver known to man. He knew he didn't have a legitimate gripe - or he would've taken it up with the union. No, he was just in "I'm telling" mode.
I'm sure there wasn't a guy on that bus who didn't know what he was getting into when he joined the band. Buddy's temperament and enormous reputation preceded him. They knew, or should have known, what he expected of them on the stand. If they didn't know, they were both naive and guilty of gross negligence. He shouldn't have had to tell them where he'd been, that he had played with the who's-who of jazz. Literally. Anyone who hadn't been living on a deserted island should have been hip to that. It was chump if any of them thought he would sit back and let slide anything less than 100% effort in his band.
 

mtarrani

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Not really - expressing a temper is an act... and “seething resentment and cruelty” would be something used to explain the motivation behind that temper.... something that few if any people can even begin to know about another person.

A target of someone's hot-temper has no actually idea about what's behind that explosion of hot-temper - was it an out of control, expression of "seething resentment"? Was it a calculated move to adjust the power structure of the situation? Was it a tool used to instruct and guide?

My father was known to say to me "Keep acting like that and you won't be able to sit for a week" - and the the man never laid a hand on me his entire life.

I just don't get how so many today don't get this about Buddy... don't get that the bus tapes are no more than some big ego/small talent player getting their feeling hurt because "gee, Dad yelled at us" and so, couldn't run to his mommy, but still felt like saying "I'm telling"... like some 8 year old and figured out how to do so... by taking his (from all the behind the scenes stories I've heard) well deserved verbal ass kicking and made it public. Which is about the most whinny maneuver known to man. He knew he didn't have a legitimate gripe - or he would've taken it up with the union. No, he was just in "I'm telling" mode.

I'm sorry - but I'm literally about the most peace-loving, non-violent, liberal in every sense of the word person you could ever meet and I am just astounded by the number of grown adults that don't see through this nonsense for what it is.

Yes, Buddy was an old school tough task master.... well guess what, he isn't the only one. And it ain't that old school. It's called "you want to ride with the greats, then there's no excuses - period". It requires 110% all of the time, every time. "But I'm sick" "Tough" "But our plane was late, so we didn't get a decent soundcheck" "Tough" You get the idea - no excuses - full on - all the time.

And of course every person capable of functioning at that level isn't always up to it when they arrive. Because frankly, nothing prior to that can prepare you. So that's why we look at these positions as mentoring positions - when I started playing with Don Ellis. We weren't peers - he was my mentor. Same when I started with Burt Bacharach. And to a great degree, after 30 years, that role never really changed that much....

If I failed to live up to our agreement - there was no quarterly review, there's no being reporting to HR - there was a one on one ass chewing. And depending on the irresponsibility of my screw-up, they weren't always polite and un-heated.

Again, mentor...

Sheesh I just dumbfounded that this seems so confusing to some people. So many listen to the bus tapes and hear the intensity, the naughty words and don't spend one minute thinking about what he's saying and the context that he is saying it.

Sorry - but I just find it astounding.
What I find astounding is an eleven paragraph response to a nineteen word sentence :O A lot of the response was on a tangent, but astounding nonetheless.
 

mtarrani

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Why is that? Where does BR misrepresent the events? Further, where does DS admit that she assaulted BR, or explain the underlying cause for her assault? Lack of candor, omitting an important detail, under the circumstances, is no less dishonest than making a knowing false statement.
You are asking the wrong questions. My comment was an opinion that I formed based on documented episodes of BR's behavior. Put another way, based on the content of the article read in the video I tended to believe BR was capable of being that way. No where in the video did BR misrepresent anything because his words were not recited. If you think that the video was dishonest, take that up with the video creator - I merely posted it with a comment about not being surprised.
 

Matched Gripper

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You are asking the wrong questions. My comment was an opinion that I formed based on documented episodes of BR's behavior. Put another way, based on the content of the article read in the video I tended to believe BR was capable of being that way. No where in the video did BR misrepresent anything because his words were not recited. If you think that the video was dishonest, take that up with the video creator - I merely posted it with a comment about not being surprised.
You implied that BR’s account was dishonest. I asked what that was based on?
 

mtarrani

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You implied that BR’s account was dishonest. I asked what that was based on?
You have me confused with someone else. I never read BR's account of that incident, so could not imply anything one way or the other regarding it. Go back and reread the posts and if anyone implied such discuss or debate it with them.
 
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