Earliest recorded fast bass drum triplets?

[Tornado]

We all know the world stopped when "Good Times Bad Times" was released in 1969. That was probably the first time bass drum doubles (as fast triplets) had ever been heard in rock music. Or maybe not?

But that definitely wasn't the first. I've been listening Sonny Payne's work with Count Basie, the song "Cute" in particular, and his amazing brushes solo has them (three times). The track is right about 200bpm. It's on the album "Basie Plays Hefti" released in 1958. So that got me thinking, who was the first to actually do this at a fast tempo? Obviously, jazz drummers have been playing in a triplet feel for as long as jazz has exisred, and obviously two bass drum notes have been played in succession for a very long time, but I think at this kind of speed there is a distinction. So fast, with the bass drum on the second and third partials of the triplet. Who actually did it first?

 

[spelman]

We all know the world stopped when "Good Times Bad Times" was released in 1969. That was probably the first time bass drum doubles (as fast triplets) had ever been heard in rock music. Or maybe not?

But that definitely wasn't the first. I've been listening Sonny Payne's work with Count Basie, the song "Cute" in particular, and his amazing brushes solo has them (three times). The track is right about 200bpm. It's on the album "Basie Plays Hefti" released in 1958. So that got me thinking, who was the first to actually do this at a fast tempo? Obviously, jazz drummers have been playing in a triplet feel for as long as jazz has exisred, and obviously two bass drum notes have been played in succession for a very long time, but I think at this kind of speed there is a distinction. So fast, with the bass drum on the second and third partials of the triplet. Who actually did it first?

Someone probably did it before Bonham , but with TWO bass drums.
Who were the double bass players back then?
Louie Bellson, Ed Shaugnessy, Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell, Carmine Appice...

 

[Tornado]

Someone probably did it before Bonham , but with TWO bass drums.
Who were the double bass players back then?
Louie Bellson, Ed Shaugnessy, Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell, Carmine Appice...

Sonny Payne was doing it with one in the 50s though.

 

[spelman]

Sonny Payne was doing it with one in the 50s though.

Yeah, but I mean fast.

 

[Tornado]

Yeah, but I mean fast.

Me too.

 

[spelman]

So some jazz drummer probably did it (slowly) in the 30's, 40's, 50's.
The double bass drummers in the 50's and 60's did it faster.
Bonham was the first who did it fast, with one foot.

 

[Mesaz00]

Carmine in Rock

 

[Tornado]

So some jazz drummer probably did it (slowly) in the 30's, 40's, 50's.
The double bass drummers in the 50's and 60's did it faster.
Bonham was the first who did it fast, with one foot.

I mean, I gave an example in the OP of something equivalently fast with one foot.

Carmine in Rock

I've heard his claims, but have yet to hear any evidence with one foot.

 

[blueshadow]

Sonny Payne was doing it with one in the 50s though.

Not doubting but would like some examples to check out, I'm familiar with the name of course but not really up on recordings

 

[toddbishop]

I'd be looking into Elvin Jones and Tony Williams, maybe Buddy Rich, Louis Bellson. No idea what some recordings would be, it's not something I ever thought about.

 

[Seb77]

Sonny Payne was the first who came to my mind. Atomic Basie, 1957: That whole record is so good!
Fours at 1:50min. It's not ridiculously fast, but it struck me as a modern type of lick.

 

[Beefsurgeon]

Not doubting but would like some examples to check out, I'm familiar with the name of course but not really up on recordings

Check this one out:

 

[moon the loon]

This footage of Morello is from 1964, he plays the broken bass drum triplet at 0:03 and repeats a few measure later:

 

[cworrick]

My money would be on Louie Bellson somewhere in a drum solo. Of course "fast" triplets are relative, but since he pioneered the double bass I'd start with him in the late 40s - 50s.

 

[KevinD]

I don't have any examples right off the top of my head, but it always seemed to me that John Bonham's triplet BD/hand combos, including the Good Times, Bad time figures were influenced by the earlier work of Elvin Jones and Max Roach.
I also believe that the framework for the GTBT figure exists in the Jim Chapin book.

I think one of the things that perked up some ears once people heard Bonham on the 1st Zep album is that he incorporated, (maybe even upping the ante a bit) those figures, ( which a lot of Jazz players would recognize) into Zep's repertoire.

 

[Frank Godiva]

JHB with Tim Rose

Foggy Mountain Breakdown at around 4:20 to 5:20

Sounds just like….

https://oildale.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/12233258/Tim-Rose-in-session-Peel-July-1-1968.mp3

 

[dcrigger]

Someone probably did it before Bonham , but with TWO bass drums.
Who were the double bass players back then?
Louie Bellson, Ed Shaugnessy, Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell, Carmine Appice...

I believe that all of Mitch's playing on Are You Experienced and Axis: Bold As Love (and possibly Electric LadyLand) was all single bass drum.

 

[Tornado]

Check this one out:

Some really nice examples from between 0:15 and 0:30.

 

[WesChilton]

This is so funny, I was just listening to Good Times Bad Times last night and I had forgotten about Bonham playing those broken triplets... it immediately reminded me of Dennis Chambers later on Blue Matter in the 80s.

I'm sure the chain goes back to the jazz guys in the 40s. I remember practicing triplet independence exercises back at Berklee, given to me by jazz instructors, that had broken triplet figures bounced around between the hands and feet that sounded like that... pretty OLD exercises too. Same thing, though Bonham and Chambers definitely put a much heavier rock/funk feel into it by adding the back beat.

 

[spelman]

I believe that all of Mitch's playing on Are You Experienced and Axis: Bold As Love (and possibly Electric LadyLand) was all single bass drum.

Correct.

What happened live?