Ebayer quits after 20 yrs - cracked Tama Superstar toms - RESOLVED FOR BUYER.......For sale again w/o major flaws??

Tama CW

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Ran across a listing today that made me feel bad. Don't know either party in this transaction. Buyer gets these 5 toms listed in "very good" condition and later finds out after delivery there is a cracked shell on either the key 6/8 toms and ply separation on at least one other drum. They do look a little beat in the original seller's photos. Ebay denied a return. Seller was firm with a $200 refund. Owner now has drums he hates to look at and/or play. Don't blame them. Caveat Emptor. Their sell listing reads like an obituary. And this should have warranted a full return. I'm surprised it didn't happen. I've had requests for returns approved by Ebay that weren't as egregious as this one. Be careful out there boys and girls. It gets worse every year.

vintage tama superstar drums. Condition is For parts or not working. these are concert toms in 6,8,10,12 and 14 sizes. If you're so inclined to repair them. You have a unique find.
Please see pictures and ask questions, you see what you get.Sold as is where is.
These concert toms were recently listed on Ebay and purchased by me for $650.00.


I did ask the previous owner about their condition via eBay message -
"...How's the condition of the drums?
Any major structural damage or breaks in wood or metal parts?
Any stands for mounting?
Thanks for your reply I appreciate it !..."
SELLER they replied-

"...The condition is very good for its age sound quality excellent would need new skins ! There’s no damage other than a couple of dings hardly noticeable ! The only thing I could see it is the 6 Tom the overlay !I would send you a picture but I think it’s normal how they are built unless you can tell me something other than that ! Unfortunately no mounting hardware ! Thank you would forward that picture of the tom..."

It was not until I receieved them and unpackaged them that I noticed flaws and damages not listed in the previous sellers description or was aware of after asking about the condition of the drums before my purchase.
The wood seam is lifting and some shells have veneer seperation - needs repaired.
When questioned about the condition, the seller fluffed it off as a common condition because of their age.
Eventually, offered a mere $200.00 as a consolation? After 20 years of membership of EBAY I thought that this could be resolved equitably by simply getting a refund from the seller. EBAY sided with the seller and refused my refund and closed the case.
This will be my last auction on EBAY.
I am disappointed with the sale , the seller and EBAY for not correcting a wrong.
My LOSS is your GAIN! reasonable offers not refused. Seller reserves right to end the auction early and cancel the listing.


Current owner / buyer's current listing to dump these drums

First seller's original Ebay listing

ebay item number from original seller......254373316043
tama concert toms.jpg
 
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Tama CW

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Is this shell repairable with clamps and wood glue? Buyer expected scuffs and scrapes but not extensive cracks. Original seller took plenty of pics, though none of the worst and most obvious damage? Coincidence? New owner saved all correspondance and took plenty of post-op photos to send to Ebay. Didn't help any.


tama concert tom 2.jpg
tama concert tom 4.jpg
tama 3.jpg
tama 5.jpg
 
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Fat Drummer

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Its all very fixable, but it still stinks that it was not fully disclosed in the original sale.

The other side of the coin is we all scream when eBay sides with the buyer all the time and now they side with the seller in this case and it's STILL wrong. It looks like they just pick which ever side is INCORRECT for any transaction dispute and side with that one!
 

supershifter2

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Is this shell repairable with clamps and wood glue? Buyer expected scuffs and scrapes but not extensive cracks. Original seller took plenty of pics, though none of the worst and most obvious damage? Coincidence? New owner saved all correspondance and took plenty of post-op photos to send to Ebay. Didn't help any.


View attachment 414462 View attachment 414463
no problem. I have a few that were way worse. injector glue and a clamp and its as good as new. that 6 and 8 are impossible to find since very few were sold and are worth their weight in gold.
 

Hazelwood7

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He got a 200 dollar refund for them and he’s asking 500 500+200=700. He paid 650. What are we arguing here? Finally, a win for us sellers. I put stuff on eBay and have to do 20 things to make sure I don’t get taken. I still could have a person do a credit card/PayPal chargeback. This guy could do the same. They are reparable. 200 bucks is more than enough to get it done. Sorry for me defending eBay on this one. I always hear how the seller gets taken. At least he got the drums and 200 bucks. Some times buyers get their money back and get to keep the product. It’s so heavy in favor of the buyer. But at least now you have a fighting chance if you sell.
 

Tama CW

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I've owned several dozen vintage Superstar drums including the ones I bought new in 1984. Before today, I've never seen an outer ply crack like that, even on pretty abused drums. Never knew it was even possible unless you ran the drum over or threw it down a few flights of metal stairs. I've also looked at a hundred or more kits for sale over the past couple of years....never seen a single seller mention plies cracked like this....until this guy trying to resell his drums. Either cracking is not that common or sellers aren't disclosing it....or both.

Who cares if the buyer was refunded $200. A seller giving up "unearned" money by failing to disclose major problems is no "win" for all Ebay sellers. This is what's wrong with Ebay. If ever a full return was warranted this was one of them. It doesn't matter how "rare" a 6" concert tom drum is. Once it's cracked, it's cracked forever...even if seemingly "repaired." A car that has been in an accident and has been "repaired" where the average Joe can't tell, is also never quite the same car again. The sad thing is that this cracked tom will eventually get repaired, then recycled back into the system as an "original and never-messed with drum with all the correct parts." A future buyer will likely be totally unaware and over-pay....only to be told later on by a more observant hobbyist or drummer that their drum has been repaired. Who knows, they may find out just like this buyer once they have it in hand....and request a full return....only to have Ebay deny it. My advice is for sellers to start describing your items fully and properly. Don't hide behind "normal wear and tear for 30 yrs" as if that's an excuse for every malady a drum might have. Drums can be rated from 1 to 10. Age alone has relatively little to do with it.
 
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Tama CW

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The 6" tom is very difficult to find. But the 8" concert toms are plentiful enough. I see those for sale fairly often.

Even the 8" double-headed toms are available enough though the 8x8 is much scarcer. Most survivors are the power tom 8's in 8x9 sizing and 10's in 10x9.

.
 
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Phantomlimb777

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The 6" tom is very difficult to find. But the 8" concert toms are plentiful enough. I see those for sale fairly often.

Even the 8" double-headed toms are available enough though the 8x8 is much scarcer. Most survivors are the power tom 8's in 8x9 sizing.

.
It depends on what finish. Super Maple is extremely rare in small sizes, ask me how I know.
 

hardbat

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Although the damage should have been divulged, it is true that it is totally repairable. Plywood IS wood that is glued together, so correcting ply separation is regluing it. As for cracks, I've had two such cases: one where I closed a car trunk on a drum... fixed that myself; and a 1960s Gon Bop set of bongos, that one was more worrisome because they're tuned high with thick heads. I had a woodworking pro do that one. That was 25 years ago and it remains solid to this day.
 

RIDDIM

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If this language is from the ad, I don't see where you have much of a case: "
Condition is For parts or not working. these are concert toms in 6,8,10,12 and 14 sizes. If you're so inclined to repair them. You have a unique find.
Please see pictures and ask questions, you see what you get.Sold as is where is.
"

- That language makes it very clear that the drums have issues. "For parts," "if you're inclined to repair them," "as is" - what else would one expect? If you got $200.00 back you're doing well, IMHO.
 

Tama CW

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If this language is from the ad, I don't see where you have much of a case: "
Condition is For parts or not working. these are concert toms in 6,8,10,12 and 14 sizes. If you're so inclined to repair them. You have a unique find.
Please see pictures and ask questions, you see what you get.Sold as is where is.
"

- That language makes it very clear that the drums have issues. "For parts," "if you're inclined to repair them," "as is" - what else would one expect? If you got $200.00 back you're doing well, IMHO.
You have the 2 listings reversed.

What you are quoting above is the aggrieved and NEW owner's Ebay listing with FULL disclosure. He's now selling these beaters he just acquired and will probably be unsuccessful for the $500 starting price. At least this new owner/seller is being honest. Even though they got a $200 "refund" already, that just got them back to what an undamaged set with lots of marks was worth......I think they will lose $200 or more from here when selling them.

Fwiw, this is the original seller's description along with no photos of what was cracked. Not a single negative comment. And the photos are far from complete in documenting their true, damaged condition. And LOL, they have the nerve to say......."priced to sell" at the original $850 (shipped) listing price.

Condition is Used. Hello for sale is the tama vintage concert Tom series size Tom 6,Tom 8, Tom 10 , Tom 12 and Tom 14 ! Price to sell very good condition all the original hardware is there ! Free shipping! Please email questions thank you

.
 
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RIDDIM

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You have the 2 listings reversed.

What you are quoting above is the aggrieved and NEW owner's Ebay listing with FULL disclosure. He's now selling these beaters he just acquired and will probably be unsuccessful for the $500 starting price. At least this new owner/seller is being honest. Even though they got a $200 "refund" already, that just got them back to what an undamaged set with lots of marks was worth......I think they will lose $200 or more from here when selling them.

Fwiw, this is the original seller's description along with no photos of what was cracked. Not a single negative comment. And the photos are far from complete in documenting their true, damaged condition. And LOL, they have the nerve to say......."priced to sell" at the original $850 (shipped) listing price.

Condition is Used. Hello for sale is the tama vintage concert Tom series size Tom 6,Tom 8, Tom 10 , Tom 12 and Tom 14 ! Price to sell very good condition all the original hardware is there ! Free shipping! Please email questions thank you

.
- Mea culpa. Thanks for making me smarter.
 

Tama CW

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Buyer regrouped and filed a claim with PayPal.

After much discussion I filed a claim with Paypal and they settled in my favor!
The drums are being returned to the seller and they are paying return shipping charges.
 

Ron_M

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Good for Paypal. The original seller was dishonest, and frankly, as a buyer, I would've run like hell after seeing the seller's overuse of exclamation points in his reply. That's a red flag for me.
 

Tama CW

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This listing is back up again by the original seller. And yet, not ONE mention of any major "issues" discovered by the previous buyer upon delivery. Just some "dings" on the shells per the seller. They apparently think that by "asking questions" one can decipher what all the problems might possibly be and bid accordingly. Seller already has been made of aware of all the issues via the first buyer that prompted PP to warrant a full refund and return. Yet they fail to mention them this time? And this seller went out of their way in the listing to chastise the previous buyer suggesting they were abusive with the return policy. I guess that makes PayPal "abusive" as well since they sided with the buyer too.

Seller has concocted a 25% "restocking fee" for "negligent buyers" who would dare return this item or back out of a purchase order....LOL. I'd like to see a definition of "negligent buyer" that doesn't violate any Ebay policies. You literally have to ask the seller 100 questions on what could be potentially wrong with those drums!......or be on the hook for losing 25%. You can't hide behind the Catch 22 of "no returns" or a negligent buyer's fee. I reported these listings to Ebay. In fact that previous buyer's listing was all the proof Ebay needed to figure out what went down. Also, Ebay agreed that a "25% buyer's negligence fee" was in violation of their policies.

It's BAAAAAAAACK


in vintage condition all the original hardware is there ! have dings on it , Please look carefully at the pictures and email me with all the questions you could have about this used vintage drums thank you

note due to negligent buyers abusing this site return policies ,even thought it says no return ,I absolute will accept returns on a case base
how ever there will be a 25 percent negligent buyer fee if cancel o returned item ,I am not a store just a honest person selling and buying in Ebay,so please if you have any doubts about purchasing please email me first thank you !
 
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