Effect of unlathed bell (Zildjian K Sweet crash cymbals)

cochlea

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I just sold off all of my electronic drum components and now have enough money to buy a nice set of cymbals (excluding hi-hats which I already have). I've always been a Zildjian guy so I've got my sights set on a few different models. The K Sweet line has my interest based on samples I've listened to online. Can someone explain the effect the unlathed bells on these crash cymbals have compared to the fully-lathed bells found on the K dark thin crashes? Is the difference really noticeable?
 

JDA

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muffles the highs that normally would come --from an unlathed bell--- giving the impression of dark or of diminished , muffled, highs--- coming from that area---- toward the total mix of the total sound
 

Mcjnic

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To add to what JDA has already stated ...
That line of cymbals is in the Paper Thin range. The thicker unlathed bell gives it more oomph which allows it to speak with a bit more authority than it would otherwise have. Also, the lathing is quite thin. The response on those are immediate.
K dark thins are what they are. A bit thicker along the cymbal body. A wider lathing.
Both speak beautifully ... albeit differently.
 

Seb77

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I talked to Paul Francis on his 2018 tour where they presented the prototypes, and also played them. Higher pitch than normal for the thin weight.
JDA might have a point in that lathe lines open up the sound, and unlathed cymbals sound drier, but when I played them, they weren't muffled at all, rather brilliant sounding. After all, it's just the bell that's unlathed, not the body of the cymbals.
 

jptrickster

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Dryer yes, muffled no. You should hear my Sabian leopard, bell shatters glass
What it will do is shorten the overall decay of the crash much like a small bell.
 

Mongrel

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I don't even know how to convey how little I know about cymbal making, but to me-it sure seems like an unlathed bell presents a more distinct and separate tone from the body of the cymbal. Not so much sympathy going on between the bell and the body when the bell is struck. When the bell is lathed "into" the body there are more similarities in the tones to my ear. The unlathed bell on my Sabian "raw bell" ride is clear and, yes, bell like with little in common with the body. The bell\s on my Ks (all lathed) seem to ring out with a tone similar to the body.

Anyone else confused yet?

lol.

And muffled? No way-exactly the opposite in fact, to me anyway....
 

blueshadow

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I wish they had done the ride with the unlathed bell. And I wish the K Hybrids unlathed area was raw and now brilliant, strickly because of looks though
 

JDA

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muffled not in a volume decibel sense; muffled in what tones are allowed able to get out;
 

cochlea

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I appreciate everybody's input. Like Mongrel, I'm quickly realizing how little I know about the physics of cymbals, and I'm finding it hard to understand some of the terminology used to describe the subtleties that result from different manufacturing techniques. I guess the best thing to do is go a shop and have a listen. I'm finding this so much harder than buying drums because you don't have the option of changing things (heads, muffling) once a purchase a cymbal.
 

Seb77

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Hey, go and listen, and don't look at the cymbals, logos, price etc. if you can, that's really the best idea to find what you like.

Re: integrated vs separate bell sound - you get this with lathed bells, too. It depends on many factory, one being the abruptness of the transition from body to bell, the "bridge" as some call it.
 

JDA

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was going to say in a lot to do with cymbals few finite answers more importantly no need for there to be.
 
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JDA

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I have one of these 19" thin ride (1663g) antique series.




22" versions

 
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charlesm

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I'll add: unlathed bell = less overtones, more clarity. More fundamental tone.

Not unlike the difference between normal wound guitar strings and flatwound.
 

Johnny K

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I have a K Custom Dry ride. The bell is awesome. Unfortunatly the cymbal is a brick and doesnt crash well. I take the good with the bad and put an 18" K Custom Fast Crash a wrist flick away and to the right of the Dry ride. They pair up very well. I tried a K Sweet at Guitar center and I liked everything about it except the bell was not as well defined as my Dry. I still may by one. I need a ride that will crash.
 

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