Fake Spizzichinos on eBay

[mbettis]

These hats are the latest in a series of fake Spizzichinos that this particular seller has been selling on eBay.

Beware.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-SPIZZICHINO-HI-HAT-CYMBALS-755-865-HATS-/371610451997?

Later,
Matt

 

[dogmanaut]

Thanks for the warning. Just for future reference (I know virtually nothing about Spizzichinos), how can you tell?

 

[rikkrebs]

These hats are the latest in a series of fake Spizzichinos that this particular seller has been selling on eBay.

Beware.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/13-SPIZZICHINO-HI-HAT-CYMBALS-755-865-HATS-/371610451997?

Later,
Matt

That's Saluda Cymbals's selling them. You would think they would know.

Do you know what they are? Are they maybe Wuhan Spizz??? I have no clue about Spizzichinos.

 

[Drum Gear Review]

So is the assumption that he got ripped off, and is unknowningly selling bogus product, or is he producing fake Spizzichinos?

 

[mbettis]

Thanks for the warning. Just for future reference (I know virtually nothing about Spizzichinos), how can you tell?

Roberto's cymbals are what inspired me to become a cymbalsmith. I am very familiar with his work, and have owned over 40 of his cymbals. It's not scientific, but that's how I can tell.

Notice how you can discern each and every hammer strike on the tops of these hats? That is not what real Spizzichino's look like.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Boydiggity]

I think the fact that this guy would actually use groove juice on Spizzichino's (real or fake) says enough.

 

[mbettis]

So is the assumption that he got ripped off, and is unknowningly selling bogus product, or is he producing fake Spizzichinos?

I can not confirm the origins of the cymbals in question. However, the seller has been contacted in the past about this activity and is doing nothing "unknowingly".

Thanks,
Matt

 

[lossforgain]

So is the assumption that he got ripped off, and is unknowningly selling bogus product, or is he producing fake Spizzichinos?

I can not confirm the origins of the cymbals in question. However, the seller has been contacted in the past about this activity and is doing nothing "unknowingly".

Thanks,
Matt

That's good to know. I think I bought a Saluda from him years ago. It was nothing to write home about. Unless you like to write about things that sound like crap.

 

[Woody85]

This really needs to be made a sticky or bumped continuously.

 

[b/o 402]

So is the assumption that he got ripped off, and is unknowningly selling bogus product, or is he producing fake Spizzichinos?

I can not confirm the origins of the cymbals in question. However, the seller has been contacted in the past about this activity and is doing nothing "unknowingly".

Thanks,
Matt

Matt,
Photo #2 of that listing shows a die stamp that looks like Robert's.
If these weren't, as you say, actually made by him, the only possible conclusion is that a FORGER is not only claiming that these are Spizz's but is committing a serious CRIME by stamping them with a counterfeit die stamp, right?
Why am I not surprised Saluda is the seller?

 

[jptrickster]

Yeah those aren't even close. Roberto made 14's and limited quantities of 15 ( I have one his first prs in both sizes )
He didn't even make 13's.

This guy is a total scumbag.

 

[bongomania]

Re the potentially or allegedly counterfeit die stamp, I seem to recall reading that Wuhan continued to use the Spizz stamp for some time after Roberto ceased doing business with them.

 

[drawtheline55]

This really needs to be made a sticky or bumped continuously.

Good idea, so I pinned it so all can see during the auction.

Ben

 

[zenstat]

Re the potentially or allegedly counterfeit die stamp, I seem to recall reading that Wuhan continued to use the Spizz stamp for some time after Roberto ceased doing business with them.

The Wuhan Spizz saga was related to ink logos not a pressed in die stamp from everything I've recorded to date. It created such a "brand confusion" that Roberto dropped the Spizz name for any of his work. We know of at least two specific die stamps used by the R. Spizzichino Cymbal Factory. The earlier one says "R. Spizzichino Cymbals Factory". These are correlated with Chinese sourced blanks.

His later cymbals which are made from Turkish sourced blanks had a new version of the die stamp which removed the stray S.

The Saluda sales of these cymbals (this isn't the first) which are claimed to be genuine Spizzichino tend to have poor quality or out of focus pictures which makes detailed analysis of the stamp impossible. There are genuine Spizzichino cymbals with incomplete die stamps. But I don't have good enough images of the Saludachino stamps to do any analysis. Even if I did the die stamp might pass inspection. However, there are a number of other issues which contribute to concern over the authenticity of these.

One previous Saludachino was an 18" cymbal which looked to us cymbalgazers like an old A which had been modified (relathed, rehammered). This was in March 2015. That stamp looked like this:

That one came with the most sketchy story I can imagine:

We had an odd, mysterious story about this crash ride and a ton of unique items we are listing on ebay over the next upcoming weeks. This guy dropped by our shop and said someone left all this drum stuff in a storage unit and he wanted to sell it. All he knew was the guy was a professional drummer for the last 45 years. He supposedly was a really big time drummer and from the items that were left in this unit, he must have been. You will understand more as you go through our auctions. We will mention this in all the auctions that came from this unit. We are still trying to find out more about this person.

Subsequent auctions did not mention any such sketchy story again.

The whole thing with these is that like finding a Rembrandt in your attic there are issues of provenance. In the absence of satisfactory provenance then authenticity is down to how it sounds ("sorry no sound file"), and how it looks compared to other Spizzichino cymbals with good provenance. Saludachinos fail on several counts from what I can see.

 

[zenstat]

And some previous 13" Spizzichino hats from Saluda:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371349124651

These ones have the Cymbals Factory stamp as their accompanying photo.

 

[Ron_M]

That's some serious fraud. $870 for a mediocre set of hats.

 

[clowndog]

Report as fraud to ebay from many people. That will at least stir the pot for this seller.

 

[NewVintage]

Did Roberto also zibra-etch his signature under the bell? I'm no Spizz expert but I think I've seen it.

 

[hardbat]

I visited him twice in the mid-90s, and bought a cymbal and a snare from him. My cymbal is from a Chinese die, and he didn't sign under the bell.

Those stamps look too smooth to me -- Roberto's look "rougher".

Also - I think that the stamp on mine has a different "S" than any of the above photos. I'll try to post a photo shortly.

 

[JazzDrumGuy]

1) There are videos of Roberto on YT and if I recall, in one of them, he etches his signature onto a cymbal, so that could be authentic.
2) Oddly, the auction ended early for $1.00......I think it said error in the listing.