Flat Bell Cymbal????

[texasshawn16]

I just recently bought a bunch of cymbals and one is a Paiste Alpha Crystal Crash 18" with a flat top bell. I love the flat top bell but not a huge fan of the crash. I think in 20 inch and a higher quality cymbal that would make the perfect crash/ride. Does anyone know if Zildjian ever made a flat bell cymbal in the K line? I know they have a flat ride with no bell but i am looking for a flat bell. What about older Paiste 2002 or rudes?

 

[JDA]

No but Paiste did. Two of em in fact. Signature and Sound Creation.

Paiste Signature Crystal Hats 14" | Reverb

New "Old Stock" . A very balanced, smooth, yet strong hi-fi hi-hat. The Paiste Crystal Hi-Hats deliver a full, fizzy, and sweet sound character with a fairly wide range and clean mix. It's very tight and responsive, with a giving feel. High pitched and sizzling open sound. Sharp, cuttin...

reverb.com

Paiste 18" Sound Creation New Dimension Short Crash Cymbal | Reverb

Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.

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and I forgot about the third SF Silk

 

[mkelley]

Paiste made flat bell cymbals in three lines - a crystal crash in the Signature line, a Silk Crash/Ride in the Sound Formula line and short crashes in the Sound Creation line.

 

[texasshawn16]

Here are pictures

 

[texasshawn16]

No but Paiste did. Two of em in fact. Signature and Sound Creation.

Thank you. After hearing everyone rave about the signature line I bought 2 crashes and honestly didn't like them as much as the 2002s. But, I'm going look for the sound creation flat bell

 

[Vicey]

I have the Signature Crystal crashes in 14 and 16. They are great for studio work but live in most settings I use 2002 crashes. Like a lot of Paiste Signature stuff, they were discontinued quite awhile ago.

I have to believe that Paiste tried to make a ride cymbal with the flat bell, but they must not have liked it much. Never even seen it as a prototype.

 

[tradrad]

Thank you. After hearing everyone rave about the signature line I bought 2 crashes and honestly didn't like them as much as the 2002s. But, I'm going look for the sound creation flat bell

having been a paiste artist back when these were debuted, i'd say look for a 20" sound formula silk crash...THAT was an amazing cymbal...i had the sig 18" crystal crash, ¿eh?, but that SF was the bomb.

 

[Tama CW]

Zildjian made a very small bell (effectively a 1/2 bell or flatish bell) on the 1st GEN AMIR cymbals ('82-'84 or so). The 18" crash is quite an incredible B8 cymbal for what it is.
Articulate enough for riding and a superb crash that borders on "fast." The one I had was 1575 gms....yet it played more like a combo 1450 gm crash and 1600 gm ride.
One of the best 18's I've ever owned. In fact, I liked it better than my 18" New Stamp late 1960's old K at 1720 gm. I kept the AMIR and sold the old K.

These earliest of AMIR's are more like Paiste 505's/404's/2oo2's than they are Avedis/A.

 

[spelman]

Paiste made flat bell cymbals in three lines - a crystal crash in the Signature line, a Silk Crash/Ride in the Sound Formula line and short crashes in the Sound Creation line.

Four lines with the Alpha crystal crash.

 

[spelman]

I have the Signature Crystal crashes in 14 and 16. They are great for studio work but live in most settings I use 2002 crashes. Like a lot of Paiste Signature stuff, they were discontinued quite awhile ago.

I have to believe that Paiste tried to make a ride cymbal with the flat bell, but they must not have liked it much. Never even seen it as a prototype.

It looks like Jim Keltner is playing an all flat-bell set (prototypes) in this early 90's picture:

 

[flatwins]

Zildjian made a very small bell (effectively a 1/2 bell or flatish bell) on the 1st GEN AMIR cymbals ('82-'84 or so). The 18" crash is quite an incredible B8 cymbal for what it is.
Articulate enough for riding and a superb crash that borders on "fast." The one I had was 1575 gms....yet it played more like a combo 1450 gm crash and 1600 gm ride.
One of the best 18's I've ever owned. In fact, I liked it better than my 18" New Stamp late 1960's old K at 1720 gm. I kept the AMIR and sold the old K.

These earliest of AMIR's are more like Paiste 505's/404's/2oo2's than they are Avedis/A.

View attachment 525508 View attachment 525510

After a period with some embarrassingly cheap cymbals as a teenager I ended up with some Amirs. Overall they were pretty decent cymbals and light years better than the garbage I had been playing.

 

[Seb77]

I would be interested in what exactly the flatness on top (and the almost 90° bend in the bell) does. Other unconventional bell shapes such as the Z "ashtray" one, too. Is the effect the same with any size/thickness/profile?
Z does have a square cup, used for china cymbals. Have they ever used it for some prototypes? Maybe it would be a patent issue?

 

[toddlittle827]

Paiste made flat bell cymbals in three lines - a crystal crash in the Signature line, a Silk Crash/Ride in the Sound Formula line and short crashes in the Sound Creation line.

There was also a Crystal Crash in the Sound Formula line

Paiste Sound Formula Crystal Crash 16" | Reverb

Bright explosive glassy sound, with a quick decay. I always loved recording with these crystal crashes. They are transparent in a mix with a quick burst and speedy departure. Paiste didn't continue to expand on this line which I think was a mistake. Then why am I selling this you ask? Because I h...

reverb.com

 

[Mcjnic]

There was also a Crystal Crash in the Sound Formula line

Paiste Sound Formula Crystal Crash 16" | Reverb

Bright explosive glassy sound, with a quick decay. I always loved recording with these crystal crashes. They are transparent in a mix with a quick burst and speedy departure. Paiste didn't continue to expand on this line which I think was a mistake. Then why am I selling this you ask? Because I h...

reverb.com

There was a whole line of these in the Sound Formula name.
14hh,14cc,16cc,18cc,20c/r. I think there was a splash, also. I had the whole line at one time or another.
I recently sold the 20 crash/ride.

 

[premierplayer]

Maybe I missed it, Zildjian made/makes a "Orenital" China with a flat top bell. I bought a damaged, BIG tear/crack 18 on feebay years ago, cut it down to a 14 and used it for a HH bottom. As a stand alone I thought I heard more bell in a crash strike. Most chinas I've owned I can't say I hear any bell at all in a crash strike.
I liked my 1st generation AMIR's, the ones I said I'd never let go..., a friend has the 14 HH's in his studio, they are awesome!

 

[DrummerJustLikeDad]

Just caught this screen grab from a 1981 Genesis video for No Reply at All, and I'd nearly forgotten that cool little cymbal of Phil's.

My internet search (as it often does) brought me right back to DFO, and apparently this cymbal was discussed in this thread. A Sound Creation creation, is that what this is??

 

[JDA]

depending on the year of that pic; could Be would be... Paiste Sound Creation (B20) Short Crash ;
never owned one couple guy here have

Paiste Sound Creation 18 " Flat Bell Short Crash 80's | Reverb

Excellent condition. No cracks, dents, or keyholing. Minimal handling marks and very light stick marks. Overall a very well cared for cymbal. Made in Switzerland-1567 grams. Serial number 640257.6402571597 grams

www.google.com

Paiste Sound Creation 16 Short Crash Cymbals Discontinued Series Weight: 1175g | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Paiste Sound Creation 16 Short Crash Cymbals Discontinued Series Weight: 1175g at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.google.com

 

[DrummerJustLikeDad]

depending on the year of that pic; could Be would be... Paiste Sound Creation (B20) Short Crash ;
never owned one couple guy here have

From what I read of Paiste SC short crashes' production years and descriptions, plus Phil's own Paiste catalogue entry, that's what it must be.

And an 18.

I don't find when the video was exactly produced/released, but the single was released in Fall '81.

 

[JDA]

Yes. Sound Creation is quite the Bunny Hole at one tme a dealer pre-internet had them; they were discontinued; and he blew them out; $99 a piece. I bought 5 or six. None were the flat cup Short tho..
But the Green look (alloy) they (the SC) had was irresistible.

14" Dark Heavy pair, 14" SE Bottom, 18" Dark Crash, 18" Dark China. 20" Mellow. 20" Bright Medium, 20" Dark Ride, 20" Dark Medium Ride.

(not all from that dealer) then - after about 5 years- I moved on.
(because) One day/night I put all my old A's up against them and discovered to me - my bog-standard older A's were darker (lower pitched)
That ended it. SC were fairly heavy weight- shaped to be dark- but.

Said at the time the Dark Heavy Hi Hats 14" were like Mel Lewis 14" Istanbul Hi hats.
If , Mel Lewis was 6' 7" and 265 lbs.

Now I have one old K New Stamp at 1050g 14" that reminds me of a Sound Creation.
Funny how that works out.
@DrummerJustLikeDad

 

[TPC]

I own a SC 18” Short Crash.

It’s very … polite. Nice, quick, higher-pitched crash, and an almost flat ride-like ride tone. The bell, while it feels weird to hit due to the shape, sounds quite good.