For Anal Drum Tuners

kenshireen1

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
832
Reaction score
80
Location
atl
Of which I am one.
I use a Drum Dial, Iphone Pro Tuner, and my pitch perfect ears;)
I have been experimenting on my 196X supraphonic.

I know how to seat a head and tune a drum.
I am trying to understand why when I use the DD and tap two lugs (one reads 85 and the one next to it 89). The Iphone Tuner reads G# on both (around 197 hz).
My ears read the same. My question is how can the DD read different numbers when the pitch was the same. I hit the drum about the lug about one inch the edge with the same pressure.
 

Philaiy9

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Messages
55
Reaction score
20
I experienced the same thing so I don't use one anymore. I think it has to do with a drum head not being perfectly centered on the bearing edge. Doesn't seem to matter for sound.
 

Hop

DFO Veteran
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
2,539
Reaction score
1,047
Location
L.A., CA
I am trying to understand why when I use the DD and tap two lugs (one reads 85 and the one next to it 89). The Iphone Tuner reads G# on both (around 197 hz).
My ears read the same. My question is how can the DD read different numbers when the pitch was the same. I hit the drum about the lug about one inch the edge with the same pressure.
Maybe one of the instruments are inaccurate. If the DD is responding to tension input changes, can probably rule it out. I'd then look at the iPhone and inquire about the sensitivity range of the microphone and how accurate/sensitive the scale is for the iPhone app that you're using. It may be that the app doesn't have the granular scale needed to differentiate between the sound of the two lugs. I have no idea a "4" difference equates to in potential differences with a more 'fine' purpose made/sophisticated instrument. It may or may not be significant. If it affects the reading from a more sophisticate sensing device, then it would really point to the iPhone app not having the accuracy you're needing.

I saw a vid on DD and they use some more sophisticate equipment... maybe they have done research into what those subtle tension difference can produce on their equipment?
See the 5:30 mark:

 

Freewill3

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
456
Reaction score
252
Location
Illinois
The first thing that comes to mind is, are one of the lugs in question near the snare bed or throw off/butt side?
 

Elvis

The King of Rock'n'Roll
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Messages
14,415
Reaction score
2,503
Location
Poulsbo, Wa.
Of which I am one.
I use a Drum Dial, Iphone Pro Tuner, and my pitch perfect ears;)
I have been experimenting on my 196X supraphonic.

I know how to seat a head and tune a drum.
I am trying to understand why when I use the DD and tap two lugs (one reads 85 and the one next to it 89). The Iphone Tuner reads G# on both (around 197 hz).
My ears read the same. My question is how can the DD read different numbers when the pitch was the same. I hit the drum about the lug about one inch the edge with the same pressure.
I'm going to preface this with JMHO....

Things like a Drum Dial are nice if you need to change a head between sets during a gig and you have to get the tension in the same "ballpark" quickly.
Otherwise, just tension the drum 'til you get a good sound and don't worry about the rest.
Just play.

...off my soapbox.
 

JimmySticks

DFO Veteran
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
1,595
Reaction score
1,797
Location
Queens NY
I find that I have to go round and round a drum numerous times to get all the lugs at the same numbers with a DD. Honestly, it doesn't seem to sound better than when the numbers are off just a bit. But yeah, I'm anal, so I go round and round until all the numbers match!
 

swarfrat

tympanus laqueus XV
Joined
Dec 15, 2014
Messages
6,085
Reaction score
1,251
DD vs pitch Measuring devices:

Measuring pitch by deflection is kind of like measuring vision by how much a patient is squinting. It's not that they're completely unrelated, but it's by no means a direct equivalent.

Regardless of the reason, or how many turns or the torque on a rod or the stiffness of the head or distance from the bearing edge: the pitch is what you're trying to control. Unless you're changing heads while the baby sleeps (btdt - hated to noise making time on mundane things like head swaps), just measure the thing you're trying to control in the first place.
 

Seb77

DFO Veteran
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,916
Reaction score
1,535
Location
Germany
The drum dail might be right? A drumhead pitch depends on the tension of adjacent lugs as well as the one opposite the head. The resultant might be a certain tone (the lowest one?), but the overtones might still be off.
With a Supra, it's unlikely the bearing edge is uneven, but maybe the shell is slightly out of round? Many factors; in the end intuition, tactile feel and ear probably work better than a measuring device.
 

Deafmoon

Very well Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
839
Reaction score
759
I've never owned a drum tuner in my 51 years of drumming. I tune to a pitch and then the intervals between drums. If I want a a major 3rd or a 4th or 5th between one drum versus another, I tune it that way. But you do have to know solfeggio or have some piano in your studies.
 

Tigerdrummer

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
1,146
Reaction score
642
Location
Ohio
Of which I am one.
I use a Drum Dial, Iphone Pro Tuner, and my pitch perfect ears;)
I have been experimenting on my 196X supraphonic.

I know how to seat a head and tune a drum.
I am trying to understand why when I use the DD and tap two lugs (one reads 85 and the one next to it 89). The Iphone Tuner reads G# on both (around 197 hz).
My ears read the same. My question is how can the DD read different numbers when the pitch was the same. I hit the drum about the lug about one inch the edge with the same pressure.
I have seen there are so many drum tuning videos. What I need is a video saying which drum tuning video to use.
 

multijd

DFO Veteran
Platinum Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2013
Messages
2,148
Reaction score
1,433
Location
Buffalo, NY
I’ve had trouble using the DD for accurate pitch tuning. My ear gets me to an “in tune” drum the Dd might get an even tension but not even tuning.
 

Buffalo_drummer

Very well Known Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2017
Messages
844
Reaction score
341
Location
Buffalo, NY
Of which I am one.
I use a Drum Dial, Iphone Pro Tuner, and my pitch perfect ears;)
I have been experimenting on my 196X supraphonic.

I know how to seat a head and tune a drum.
I am trying to understand why when I use the DD and tap two lugs (one reads 85 and the one next to it 89). The Iphone Tuner reads G# on both (around 197 hz).
My ears read the same. My question is how can the DD read different numbers when the pitch was the same. I hit the drum about the lug about one inch the edge with the same pressure.
The DD is measuring surface tension and that has nothing to do with pitch. Different tensions can yield the same pitch, which is what you're seeing. It's best to use the DD first to get started then fine tune with an electronic tuner to achieve the desired pitch.
 

kenshireen1

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
832
Reaction score
80
Location
atl
The first thing that comes to mind is, are one of the lugs in question near the snare bed or throw off/butt side?

I am only testing the batter head. Why would the lugs on the reso have any impact if it is the same for the DD reading and the frequency reading
 

kenshireen1

Very well Known Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
832
Reaction score
80
Location
atl
DD vs pitch Measuring devices:

Measuring pitch by deflection is kind of like measuring vision by how much a patient is squinting. It's not that they're completely unrelated, but it's by no means a direct equivalent.

Regardless of the reason, or how many turns or the torque on a rod or the stiffness of the head or distance from the bearing edge: the pitch is what you're trying to control. Unless you're changing heads while the baby sleeps (btdt - hated to noise making time on mundane things like head swaps), just measure the thing you're trying to control in the first place.
Measure with what device
 

jptrickster

DFO Star
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
10,030
Reaction score
3,543
Location
Fairfield County
It's probably inconsistency within the head itself. I doubt the plastic material/coating have such rigorous tolerances. Its a drum head not a heart valve.
 


Top