FYI: Sabian cymbal refresh now only supports "new" logo

David M Scott

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I know, I have had a few cymbals over the years that I would have liked to send in for reworking and thought I would get around to it eventually. But I waited too long and when the refresh program changed, I knew I had missed my chance.
Is everyone aware that Sabian now has the SR2 program in effect ? They refurbish B20 cymbals that were used at shows, demos or sent to artists to try. So at a reasonable price you can get a quality cymbal that runs the gamut from AA to Vault. It is a crapshoot if you order without hearing it but Cymbals.com say they will send you the exact cymbal you hear so they have inventory. Portsmouth Drum Centre does the same. They actually drive up to Sabian which is 4-6 hours, go through the SR2 and select what they want.. bringing back up to 300 at a time.
So this program replaces the former custom rework i'm guessing. Not what a lot of people are looking for but that's the way it is.
I would suggest that the rework program got to costly as it would require more or less dedicated lathers etc which could increase the price of reworking.
one thing of interest is the fact that Ray Baduc the drummer for the Jimmy Dorsey Big Band took every new cymbal he bought and buried them in the garden for a fee months. He said it improved the sound. So a number of years back Sabian buried a number of theirs in a farmers field for
several months. They dug them up, cleaned the mud off and their quality control person said there was a definite improvement in the high end of the sound spectrum. Seems pretty severe to me as i'm guessing there would be significant discolouration/staining.
If you listen to the podcast
Drum History a segment called Cymbal Myths, the guest makes custom cymbals in his California shop and if I remember correctly reworks on a custom basis.
good luck
 

JazzDrumGuy

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I'm in "sales" too, sort of. Isn't a good first impression a fundamental of Marketing 101?

Interestingly, of my 4 German cars (no, I am not German), 3 have the same logo since 1916 and one has the same logo since 1952.
Ironically, I didn't buy any of them for their logo (or buy them new, for that matter). I bought them because I wanted them.

I am a die hard Zildjian guy although I do own a few Sabians. I agree if the cymbal is great sounding, that's the most important thing (as are looks, cost, etc.). But if I was in the market for a "new" Sabian, that logo would be an eyesore. Zildjian hasn't always had perfect logos, either.

If it were me, I'd want any advertising/publicity - new or old logo. I am guessing there are millions of cymbals sold in existence with the "old" logo and maybe thousands with the new logo. They should respect the tens if not hundreds of millions spent on their cymbals before the logo change and honor those buyers and their gear. If they don't want to, that's their business and good luck to them.
 

David M Scott

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I'm in "sales" too, sort of. Isn't a good first impression a fundamental of Marketing 101?

Interestingly, of my 4 German cars (no, I am not German), 3 have the same logo since 1916 and one has the same logo since 1952.
Ironically, I didn't buy any of them for their logo (or buy them new, for that matter). I bought them because I wanted them.

I am a die hard Zildjian guy although I do own a few Sabians. I agree if the cymbal is great sounding, that's the most important thing (as are looks, cost, etc.). But if I was in the market for a "new" Sabian, that logo would be an eyesore. Zildjian hasn't always had perfect logos, either.

If it were me, I'd want any advertising/publicity - new or old logo. I am guessing there are millions of cymbals sold in existence with the "old" logo and maybe thousands with the new logo. They should respect the tens if not hundreds of millions spent on their cymbals before the logo change and honor those buyers and their gear. If they don't want to, that's their business and good luck to them.
I'm guessing your studying marketing with your referral
to fundamentals 101. Ok lets explore logos. When Sabian first came on the market they had an engraved logo like Zildjian that read:
SABIAN
then an upside down crescent
Canada
That may of seemed to indicate Turkish heritage which in fact it was as Kerope and a nephew lived in Canada for a few years and imparted their knowledge to the AZCO plant craftsmen.
But it would appear that Sabian needed their own image because they dropped the embossment and went with the 1/2 in stamp cymbal image we are so familiar with and two years ago it sold Sabian 800,000 cymbals that year. So like every product, a new look is
is common especially when new lines are introduced and Sabian has launched a number over the last couple of years. Agreed that Zildjian has stayed the course in that they maintain the embossed logo. But that too has been changed over the years. Has
it worked ? Well, if you have been reading all the posts under "Paul Francis No Longer at Zildjian" you will know that Zildjian hired a person to oversee their business model (can you say cut expenses) because when you read his resume he has done that for four manufacturers in the past.
A move like that usually means profits are not where they should be. That could be because the expense to profit ratio is out of whack and that is attributable to falling sales in 90% of the case. So does Zildjian need an image overhaul, new quality lines.. and not that ZRT abomination ? If Andy Zildjian of Sabian suspects Zildjian USA is in a state of flux then like any good CEO he will jump at any chance to make his product highly visible. That is certainly what Andy has done with the new logo.
So, look at all the discussion it's generated on this site.
The great 1920's comedian
W.C. Fields said "Say what you like about me but mention my name"
I'm sure that as many decenters as there are, there is at least the same number that are on side and impressed with Sabian's new logo/branding. I have spent a lifetime in marketing and management and if by my experience or nothing more than osmosis, I know that 99% of manufacturers in the world rebrand their image and logo change or updating is always in the forefront.
 

Soulfinger

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If Andy Zildjian of Sabian suspects Zildjian USA is in a state of flux then like any good CEO he will jump at any chance to make his product highly visible. That is certainly what Andy has done with the new logo.
And I´ve got to admit it worked with me.
As someone who bought his first set of Sabians some 30 years ago I couldn´t stand the new logo.
But all that discussion made me want to know what Sabian has to offer these days, and guess what - the HHX Complex line won me over. These cymbals are just wonderful, and while I still don´t like the logo I can´t see it when playing. So in the end they won a customer.
 

Old PIT Guy

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While not a fan of the new logo it doesn't bother me, especially since it's relegated to the bottom. If it were about half its current size I wouldn't think twice about it. I think if someone has used Sabian in the past and enjoyed them, canceling their product for a logo amounts to having an uncanny ability to hear with their eyes.
 

David M Scott

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And I´ve got to admit it worked with me.
As someone who bought his first set of Sabians some 30 years ago I couldn´t stand the new logo.
But all that discussion made me want to know what Sabian has to offer these days, and guess what - the HHX Complex line won me over. These cymbals are just wonderful, and while I still don´t like the logo I can´t see it when playing. So in the end they won a customer.
Yep
i was looking for a combo crash ride that would give me that Turk sound without having to drop $500 Canadian. I listened to the HHX Legacy Dave Wechl 19in crash and even though it's not listed as a ride it is great as one especially Be Bop, modern Jazz. It's dark with controlled wash when riding but great when crashed. And, when I do street gigs with my Pearl Compact Traveller frame kit the Legacy is a one size fits all and all for $337 Canadian.
i couldn't be more pleased. Sabian has a quality product for every situation at a liveable price.
 

Jimmystuff65

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Just a heads up - Sabian no longer offers their old logo as part of the cymbal refresh program (https://sabian.com/cymbal-refresh/)

I finally managed to snag a 90s 18" Rocktagon that's in pretty rough shape. I wanted to get it factory restored, but found out they'd only put the new logo on.

My own feelings about the new logo notwithstanding :pukeright: , it's not at all period appropriate for that cymbal, so that's a shame :)
I got a rocktagon too!!
It’s dark and brash!!!
 

bolweevil

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one thing of interest is the fact that Ray Baduc the drummer for the Jimmy Dorsey Big Band took every new cymbal he bought and buried them in the garden for a fee months. He said it improved the sound. So a number of years back Sabian buried a number of theirs in a farmers field for
several months. They dug them up, cleaned the mud off and their quality control person said there was a definite improvement in the high end of the sound spectrum. Seems pretty severe to me as i'm guessing there would be significant discolouration/staining.
If you listen to the podcast
Drum History a segment called Cymbal Myths, the guest makes custom cymbals in his California shop and if I remember correctly reworks on a custom basis.
good luck
Funny to find that when I google 'bury your cymbals' most of the search results lead back to DFO (some threads over a decade old).
 

Skinsmannn

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I love Sabians. Great stuff.
I understand that all this giant logo business was aimed at T.V. exposure.
I actually prefer no logos at all. I pay enough for the cymbals themselves. I dont really care if anyone can tell what I use as long as they sound good and I dont appreciate advertising for a company that I just paid for the product. Cymbals have a huge markup to boot.
The ink they use is basic India black. Nothing special....per Zildjian.
For those of you on a mission to re logo, you can have a big rubber stamp made for 20 30 bucks and wah lah....new logo.
 

David M Scott

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I love Sabians. Great stuff.
I understand that all this giant logo business was aimed at T.V. exposure.
I actually prefer no logos at all. I pay enough for the cymbals themselves. I dont really care if anyone can tell what I use as long as they sound good and I dont appreciate advertising for a company that I just paid for the product. Cymbals have a huge markup to boot.
The ink they use is basic India black. Nothing special....per Zildjian.
For those of you on a mission to re logo, you can have a big rubber stamp made for 20 30 bucks and wah lah....new logo.
Well said
 

equipmentdork

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Interesting that the cymbal gets an instant "generation upgrade" by having it refreshed. Sabian used to restamp the cymbals with their original generations ink, but they must have thrown all those ink stamps out.
I was told that second hand when I wanted the old, large AAX on a new Stage Crash a few years ago.


Dan
 

lossforgain

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Interesting that the cymbal gets an instant "generation upgrade" by having it refreshed. Sabian used to restamp the cymbals with their original generations ink, but they must have thrown all those ink stamps out.
I’m sorry but this is really short sighted on their part. Look at all the people who love vintage cymbals and want to use identifying marks to determine their age! This practice ensures that any refreshed cymbal will be devalued in the future.
 

Tommy D

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I’m sorry but this is really short sighted on their part. Look at all the people who love vintage cymbals and want to use identifying marks to determine their age! This practice ensures that any refreshed cymbal will be devalued in the future.
Or people who bought old Sabian's for dirt cheap send them in for $40, get them refreshed and sell them at discounted new pricing. Overall a very shady practice.
 


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