Gigging Vintage Ludwig Sets

retrosonic

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Yes, its all in the Round Badge Gretsch shells.....there is magic there . My Gretsch BDP Round badge set (which I am currently restoring) sings like a bird!
 

tkillian

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I should say.

Out of all the kits I have owned. I love my Vintage 1960s slingerlands and 1960s Gretsch the best.

I could easily sell my round badge kit and be happy and gig until I die with my Slingerlands.

Its just that given the choice I like the Gretsch.

A bass player friend of mine likes the Slingerlands better. Same with a drummer friend (who owns Slingerlands).

I play jazz so on stage in an auditorium, no microphones....the Slingerlands sound amazing.

I you hear the audio and youtube.com clips of my Slingerlands...…….they sound amazing.

I still need to make a Gretsch video.

I have a big concert coming up in a beautiful auditorium. Ill try to make some video.

On the other hand........the little Ludwig Jazzette I have played at which are the house drums in a club in Syracuse, NY. Those? Amazing and I wanted to go get a kit when I was done playing a gig and rehearsal there.

Holy cow. Just wonderful, acoustic, jazz, up close drums.....cannot beat Ludwig.
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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Gretsch throw sound out to and audience like no other drum.
They retain the "note" and roundness 50-100 feet away.
My Slingerlands are FULL and round but dont have the throw so will sound choked 100 feet away. A few feet from audience nice and full and open.

So for me...everything but Gretsch sound thuddy and choked.
Volume? Im a jazz drummer. If I were a rock drummer and had microphones on the kit...would it really matter?

Ive owned or gigged, sonorlite, YRC. Pearl MC, MDS, Mapex pro M, Ludwig Jazzette, Fibes Maple,Vintage Slingerland, Rogers, Yamaha Maple Custom.

Most "dead/softest " from Audience...sonorlite and YRC...maybe because birch has shorter decay
Tom - I tend to agree about Gretsch, in fact in rock sizes too. I think the same for Rogers and possibly Camco...but I’m newer to the Camco camp.
 

PPF

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I use my 60s ludwig superclassic kit on a regular basis with a loud rock cover band. They are for sure not as loud as my yamaha maple custom drums, but that's what I love so much about those drums. You really have to play hard, but if you do the attack and energy of vintage ludwigs is just amazing!!
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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Most "dead/softest " from Audience...sonorlite and YRC...maybe because birch has shorter decay
I think longer tones coming from high end modern maple drums tend to carry better than drums designed with a super short note (like a YRC). I’d rather play a DW Collectors, Yamaha maple custom/hybrid/absolute, or Tama Starclassic maple.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Well my recently acquired White Marine Pearl super classic kit is not fully cleaned yet. Unfortunately, my gig that was next week where I was going to debut them is not happening so I have to wait for our next gig in August and I'll have it done by then. Looking very forward to playing these live at a festival!
 

Corbin L Douthitt

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Who takes their vintage Ludwig kits out to gigs? One member felt that they sound flat in live settings. I’ve brought my 60s super classic to restaurant gigs and big churches in the past. I always think they sound great from the driver’s seat, but I’ll admit...not sure what the drums sound like out front when the band gets going. Is there any merit to them sounding flat in live settings?

I guess if you think about it, a modern 45 degree edge kit will probably have more projection, and maybe (just maybe) there is something to that point. Or maybe the theory isn’t true at all. Let’s hear your thoughts.
sounds like you are doing what 99% of drummers do- tune from the throne. YOU hear the ringing from the toms and snare so you muffle it. The MUSIC covers that up in a live setting. In the small venue I play in, I use little gel pads to control the ringing- out doors- I don't worry about it. I use a pillow in the bass drum that I can slide forward to the resonant head but I use an old style Bass muffler that clamps to the rim and looks vintage. Get someone to play the drums- or at least bang on them while you are out front.
 

Bash Brand

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I've been using my '67 Super Classic constantly since I got it in 1981 (aside from very occasional Trixon Telstar and English Rogers use) both live and in the studio.

I've always tuned 'em high with no damping or b.d. hole ("let the b*ggers ring!" as someone once said) and tried to rely on as little miking (if any) as poss. I have to say I've only had compliments about the noise they've made, never any complaints – even from grumpy sound engineers who begrudgingly offered, "Hmmph – yeah, I s'pose they sounded alright…" when I forbade them to use more than two mics.

I also still use the skinny ol' 1400 cymbal stands, Rogers Swanleg hi-hat stand and Buck Rogers snare stand too. They're so light & fluffy I can pick 'em up and throw 'em into place with one hand (sort of). Long live my old tubs!
 

swarre03

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I think it just depends on a couple things. The type of music you're playing and what you're trying to achieve. The popular sound right now is loud, round toms that really stand out in a mix. That's what the majority of new mixes sound like but if you're going for a different sound where the toms are mixed down and a bit more muted they are perfect. Ludwigs are perfect if you want that thumpier dry sound out of your toms in any setting. I used to play in a band with a heavy radiohead influence and they worked amazing and I still use that kit for the jazz gigs and the singer-songwriter gigs I play and every show I get a compliment on their sound. If you need more cut from the kick, I take the front head off and get a BADBADNOTGOOD kind of sound.
No kit is good at everything. Look at how many guitars your lead player has and it's easy to justify having multiple kits for multiple styles. They are great for one thing and they are pretty but if you're playing a pop country gig they won't work.
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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I've been using my '67 Super Classic constantly since I got it in 1981 (aside from very occasional Trixon Telstar and English Rogers use) both live and in the studio.

I've always tuned 'em high with no damping or b.d. hole ("let the b*ggers ring!" as someone once said) and tried to rely on as little miking (if any) as poss. I have to say I've only had compliments about the noise they've made, never any complaints – even from grumpy sound engineers who begrudgingly offered, "Hmmph – yeah, I s'pose they sounded alright…" when I forbade them to use more than two mics.

I also still use the skinny ol' 1400 cymbal stands, Rogers Swanleg hi-hat stand and Buck Rogers snare stand too. They're so light & fluffy I can pick 'em up and throw 'em into place with one hand (sort of). Long live my old tubs!
Sounds cool...got any pics to share?
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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I think it just depends on a couple things. The type of music you're playing and what you're trying to achieve. The popular sound right now is loud, round toms that really stand out in a mix. That's what the majority of new mixes sound like but if you're going for a different sound where the toms are mixed down and a bit more muted they are perfect. Ludwigs are perfect if you want that thumpier dry sound out of your toms in any setting. I used to play in a band with a heavy radiohead influence and they worked amazing and I still use that kit for the jazz gigs and the singer-songwriter gigs I play and every show I get a compliment on their sound. If you need more cut from the kick, I take the front head off and get a BADBADNOTGOOD kind of sound.
No kit is good at everything. Look at how many guitars your lead player has and it's easy to justify having multiple kits for multiple styles. They are great for one thing and they are pretty but if you're playing a pop country gig they won't work.
Good points made. I know it’s not always financially feasible to have various drum kits. But as much as I enjoy vintage drums (and have some), I still like having my modern (DW Collectors and Yamaha MCA in my case) drum kit available. I think you’re generally right though...if I need something big and loud...I’m pulling out the modern stuff.
 
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I still have my '67 Ludwig Hollywood set that I used to drive our band almost weekly at CBGB--unmiked. By the end, I was breaking 2Bs behind a wall of Fender Dual Showmans and Kustom amps. That was just the fate of the Bonham era drummer. I now have a simple PA and a couple of wedge monitors should I need more volume. I recently shifted to my a '64 Slingerland Modern Jazz (20-12-16) and the sound is tremendous. I dig the vintage sound of a well-tuned, properly headed vintage kit--but will have power steering of a simple mike set-up if CBGB disliopens. Oh, the miking must not just be an overhead (splashy mush) deal to capture the punch and precision you get sitting behind the drums.
 

emada

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Who takes their vintage Ludwig kits out to gigs? One member felt that they sound flat in live settings. I’ve brought my 60s super classic to restaurant gigs and big churches in the past. I always think they sound great from the driver’s seat, but I’ll admit...not sure what the drums sound like out front when the band gets going. Is there any merit to them sounding flat in live settings?

I guess if you think about it, a modern 45 degree edge kit will probably have more projection, and maybe (just maybe) there is something to that point. Or maybe the theory isn’t true at all. Let’s hear your thoughts.
It amazes me how most string and key players, at least in my experience in this area, think that drum mic’ing is some form of voodoo. The whole environment in a band is working against drum frequencies and volume constraints. If you can convince whomever controls the board to give you two channels, one for the bass and one for a dynamic overhead, the band will sound exponentially better. If you have a band that encourages dancing or toe-tapping, your audience is going to want to find that bass pulse, while the overhead will give you presence and fill in the overall sound. Otherwise, you run the risk of sounding nothing other than snare and cymbals, all the high and clear frequencies, while all the low and mid register turns to mud or is totally washed out. When bands won’t let me tap in a couple channels, I play heavy sticks, thick metal snares, Paistes, and a wood beater on a wide open bass. They’ll hear me just fine. I’m a drummer after all. I’ll hit stuff hard and they will respect my sublimated aggression.
 

Guzowskip

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Opinions are like other things in life... everyone has one and the other's usually stinks... but here's mine...

1. I played loud rock in HS and broke some sticks and cymbals by my banging.

2. Today, 40 years later, I play mostly jazz, big band, standards, etc. in casual and intimate environments. I have mics but they are usually not needed as I play a lot with brushes... I made my own cajon a couple of years ago and it even does not need a mic in most situations.

3. My usual playing out kit is a red glitter glass Slingerland one I assembled from various sources.... Shells are all 3-ply with reinforcing rings. 20" kick started as a concert tom which I converted. 12" tom was originally a tom but wrapped in black and with a hole-through mount (re-wrapped and now rim mount). 15" floor tom started life as a marching snare but after rewrap plays well. Snare is a mid-60s COB.

4. I'm currently renovating a 1964 Ludwig Club Date in silver sparkle. This will be my go-to kit for playing out in most situations. The 5.5x14 Supraphonic snare is ready and playable but the shells (12-14-20) are still a work in progress.

5. When I need punch (outdoors or large venue), I play a Sonor Force 3007 kit with a BIG 22x18 kick drum. It's a cannon. I have virtually no dampening on any of these drums and they cut through just about everything, even without mics.

6. I have a 1969 Rogers Londoner (as played by Dave Clark) which I bought a few years ago from the original owner. Sizes are 5x14 COB Powertone snare and 13, 13, 16, 22 in black oyster pearl. All hardware is original swivomatic and swan leg stands (apart from replica drum spurs and a Rogers snare stand which was not original to the kit). He advertised it as "used but not abused" but I think that lies in the eyes of the beholder. My professional drummer friend who owns his own drum company helped me restore it. We disassembled everything, polished the hardware, installed new heads (I kept all the old ones), and restored the original wrap which had some issues. It looks incredibly good for a 50-year old kit. I've never played this kit out and would like it to find a new home if anyone's interested (photos and serial numbers available).

Polo in NW FL
 

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AtlantaDrumGuy

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Opinions are like other things in life... everyone has one and the other's usually stinks... but here's mine...

1. I played loud rock in HS and broke some sticks and cymbals by my banging.

2. Today, 40 years later, I play mostly jazz, big band, standards, etc. in casual and intimate environments. I have mics but they are usually not needed as I play a lot with brushes... I made my own cajon a couple of years ago and it even does not need a mic in most situations.

3. My usual playing out kit is a red glitter glass Slingerland one I assembled from various sources.... Shells are all 3-ply with reinforcing rings. 20" kick started as a concert tom which I converted. 12" tom was originally a tom but wrapped in black and with a hole-through mount (re-wrapped and now rim mount). 15" floor tom started life as a marching snare but after rewrap plays well. Snare is a mid-60s COB.

4. I'm currently renovating a 1964 Ludwig Club Date in silver sparkle. This will be my go-to kit for playing out in most situations. The 5.5x14 Supraphonic snare is ready and playable but the shells (12-14-20) are still a work in progress.

5. When I need punch (outdoors or large venue), I play a Sonor Force 3007 kit with a BIG 22x18 kick drum. It's a cannon. I have virtually no dampening on any of these drums and they cut through just about everything, even without mics.

6. I have a 1969 Rogers Londoner (as played by Dave Clark) which I bought a few years ago from the original owner. Sizes are 5x14 COB Powertone snare and 13, 13, 16, 22 in black oyster pearl. All hardware is original swivomatic and swan leg stands (apart from replica drum spurs and a Rogers snare stand which was not original to the kit). He advertised it as "used but not abused" but I think that lies in the eyes of the beholder. My professional drummer friend who owns his own drum company helped me restore it. We disassembled everything, polished the hardware, installed new heads (I kept all the old ones), and restored the original wrap which had some issues. It looks incredibly good for a 50-year old kit. I've never played this kit out and would like it to find a new home if anyone's interested (photos and serial numbers available).

Polo in NW FL
Who did the rewrap on the red kit?
 

JazzDrumGuy

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Well I played my WMP kit on 8/24 at a live festival. Unfortunately, I was advised the morning of, AFTER I arrived, that there was a house kit! We also had a 2nd stage set and they told me no bass drum (it was out in front of an art gallery!).
But there was a band across the way with drums so, although I had my riser to flip the 16" into a "bass" and also put the 13 into a stand, I ended doing a full 1.5 hour set with these drums, unmiked, and my 6.5x14 bronze Supra. The kit was amazing, the bass thumped and it sounded great! Lots of compliments on the aged WMP, too. I will definitely take them out again!

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wflkurt

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I mostly gig with my 2012 classic maple set. They have been extremely consistent, look and sound great every time. That being said I do take a vintage set out from time to time and I am always very happy with how they sound live. I also usually get a lot of compliments on the sound of them and I do very much enjoy playing a piece of history.
 

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squidart

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I took out the 64 Super Classics on Monday. Carefully. If I hadn’t known the venue and the easy load in I wouldn’t have though. I would definitely not take them on the road due to the fragile hardware.
But they sounded fantastic in a jazz setting with high, live ceilings and no mics. I run em wide open except the bass with one felt strip on batter side. Worth the babying for that gig. :)
 

emada

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Typically have at least one monitor with as much drums as I want to hear coming back at me and sometimes in stereo it’s a beautiful thing. You don’t have to work so hard when you can hear yourself especially outdoors where the sound instantly vaporizes into the vortex
View attachment 402318
Chuckling at all the iPads on stands...
 


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