Great Snare with a Fatal Flaw

CC Cirillo

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I was looking for a 6.5 Classic Maple snare to round out my Ludwigs of similar depth and girth: An aged Pioneer and a youthful Black Beauty. Lots of Classics out there, but in addition to wanting one in good shape, I needed: (1) a muffler; (2) long bow tie lugs; (3) a color that didn’t clash too much with my current olive pearl set; and (4) under $300. Mufflers really work, they do; those short bowtie lugs on a 6.5 shell just look wrong to me; I happen to think blending of finishes matters; and…I know what you’re thinking, less than three bills?

Needless to say, the search took a while. I found this one, in WMP, and it filled all stated requirements. Haven’t seen it yet under stage lights, but--sorry, Ludwig Fans--the regular WMP of this era is nothing stellar.

But that’s not the problem. The fatal flaw on this was the Millennium throw off. What a wonderful strainer with a horrible design flaw. I realize this has been litigated here at length, so I won’t dwell on it other than the mechanism started to come apart almost immediately. I don’t fault the seller at all. It looked like he or maybe Ludwig put in some blue Loctite, but, Lord, regardless, those poor little screws have only about two and a half threads of purchase. I bet the vibration of rim shots alone would back them out so that it would inevitably fall apart. One was nearly out.

Anyone who has had a throw malfunction at a gig will have made a vow to never allow that to repeat. So even though I added another round of Loctite, I got a new P88AC.

The drum came with a factory-correct Weathermaster Heavy. The previous owner mentioned he’d hardly played the drum and the head was proof. I almost didn’t change it, but I wanted a Remo Reverse Black Dot as I intend to use this for rock covers. I really like how that head has distinct playing divisions—the center for pork chop & potato backbeat, and then if you move outward from the center the complexion of sound totally changes to much more open sizzle. The drum seems loud to me, more volume as in filling more sonic space, maybe not just volume in decibel metric way.

I am wondering about other people’s experience with this drum, and what heads, wires you like.

If you got this far reading, and want a Millennium throw off, I’ll send it to you for free, but it may take a while as I’m not standing in line in any crowded San Francisco post office any time soon.

The Barton Drum Bag with its hot pink fuzzy interior makes for an absolutely pornographic combination.


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fun2drum

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Wow what a beautiful snare drum! I've seen where those strainers have mixed reviews - it's like you love them or hate them, or love them until you hate them. I have a Black Beauty I put a P86 on years ago, and it has given me no negative issues. I like the way it works too, and I hope it stays that way. If it gives me the first sign of trouble then I'll install an INDe strainer and be done with it.
 

Gunnellett

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Cool snare! I like deeper snares myself.

If are really looking to give away the millennium strainer I'd take it. I put one on a Frankenstein Acro and like it. I would pay the shipping.

I'm wondering about the depth of the Barton snare bag. I have an 8X14 Ludwig Naked Brass I would like to get a bag for and have been eyeing the Barton due to it's cool look and your guys reviews. Some bags are pretty true to dimensions while others seem to have extra room.
 

robbie

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That is a beautiful snare. Not too familiar with this strainer. The problem kinda reminds me of the old Slingerland Zoomatic. Crappy design. Although this is a far more attractive strainer
 

thin shell

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The strainer is a bad design but the 242 blue loctite wouldn't be my choice in the first place. It is not very strong and designed to be removable. The red 262 would probably solve the problem permanently. It requires heat to be removed.
 

K.O.

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I suppose I've been lucky as I have yet to experience any problems with my various P-86 throw offs. It's one of my favorite designs, but as I say, no problems...yet. My opinion may change if they do start giving me problems. Fortunately there are plenty of options to switch it out to, whether P-85 or P-88 or INDe.

I guess we line up differently, I do not like the look of the longer bow ties on 6.5" snares and I never use the internal mufflers...vive la differerence ;)
 

CC Cirillo

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The strainer is a bad design but the 242 blue loctite wouldn't be my choice in the first place. It is not very strong and designed to be removable. The red 262 would probably solve the problem permanently. It requires heat to be removed.
Excellent idea and I considered red. I put the blue as I was toying with getting replacement screws (which DCP sells) thinking maybe they’d have more purchase, but That Voice in my head intoned: “Curtis, this is Curt. I know you. Hell, I am you, and even with new screws and more robust threadlocker you shall ALWAYS be thinking about those teeny screws loosening, and you’ll start taking a backup snare and tools and replacement screws and loctite everywhere....just switch the damned throw and move on, Curty Curt Curtis....”

But it is such an elegant vintage Jag of a throw off, mates.
 

NobleCooleyNut

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Wow what a beautiful snare drum! I've seen where those strainers have mixed reviews - it's like you love them or hate them, or love them until you hate them. I have a Black Beauty I put a P86 on years ago, and it has given me no negative issues. I like the way it works too, and I hope it stays that way. If it gives me the first sign of trouble then I'll install an INDe strainer and be done with it.
I have a P86 on my Black Beauty as well - it has performed flawlessly so far and like you I hope it continues that way .
 

CC Cirillo

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Cool snare! I like deeper snares myself.

If are really looking to give away the millennium strainer I'd take it. I put one on a Frankenstein Acro and like it. I would pay the shipping.

I'm wondering about the depth of the Barton snare bag. I have an 8X14 Ludwig Naked Brass I would like to get a bag for and have been eyeing the Barton due to it's cool look and your guys reviews. Some bags are pretty true to dimensions while others seem to have extra room.
I just took a look at the Barton. (I don’t have an 8” to test.) The case on the outside from seam to seam resting with my 6.5 inside is 7.5. If I tug on it, it stretches to 8 inches but there is still the interior padding, which isn’t too thick. It could possibly work but would be tight. Perhaps worth a go if you have another snare needing a case if in doesn’t work on the 8. These Barton’s are great cases for the money, super affordable as you probably already know. (PM me your address for the throw.)
 

Gunnellett

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I just took a look at the Barton. (I don’t have an 8” to test.) The case on the outside from seam to seam resting with my 6.5 inside is 7.5. If I tug on it, it stretches to 8 inches but there is still the interior padding, which isn’t too thick. It could possibly work but would be tight. Perhaps worth a go if you have another snare needing a case if in doesn’t work on the 8. These Barton’s are great cases for the money, super affordable as you probably already know. (PM me your address for the throw.)
Thanks for taking the measurements on that snare bag!
 

Hop

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HA! Great read "Curty Curt Curtis"

… Mufflers really work, they do...
I removed all mufflers from my snares except the one on my old L552KY, which I was playing not too long ago. While playing I decide to "modify" the sound and engage the muffler. The first thoughts I had were, "Oh, that's what that's for," and ""Mufflers really do work!"

I really like how that head has distinct playing divisions—the center for pork chop & potato backbeat, and then if you move outward from the center the complexion of sound totally changes to much more open sizzle... I am wondering about other people’s experience with this drum, and what heads, wires you like.
I've got an 403 (LS403TD50 - 10-ply variant with Birdseye maple, tube lugs, P-86, DC hoops) that I am using with the stock Luddy batter head (stock snares too) and am liking the results. For variety I like moving off-center like you mentioned, and catching a bit of the rim to vary up the sound - heck, you can even get a bit of the "honk" going too! When it comes time to change the head I will try the Remo Reverse Black Dot (or white dot) as I have one of those on my 483 (Coliseum) and really like it..

...The fatal flaw on this was the Millennium throw off. What a wonderful strainer with a horrible design flaw.
Like some of the other members I haven't had any problem with mine but I've always thought it looked/felt a bit on the flimsy side. I'll have to check on those fasteners to see how well they're doing.
Nice to see that you can easily change out the P-86 for the P-88.

I figured I chime in a vote for my favorite Luddy throw-off, the venerable P-87, which I have on the Coliseum and have retro fitted to work with your basic snare wires instead of the L-1110 type...

Ludwig-P87_.JPG L483_011a_SML.jpg


Some probably think it's an ugly duckling, but to me its a super model....

Ludwig-P87.jpg
 

Matched Gripper

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I was looking for a 6.5 Classic Maple snare to round out my Ludwigs of similar depth and girth: An aged Pioneer and a youthful Black Beauty. Lots of Classics out there, but in addition to wanting one in good shape, I needed: (1) a muffler; (2) long bow tie lugs; (3) a color that didn’t clash too much with my current olive pearl set; and (4) under $300. Mufflers really work, they do; those short bowtie lugs on a 6.5 shell just look wrong to me; I happen to think blending of finishes matters; and…I know what you’re thinking, less than three bills?

Needless to say, the search took a while. I found this one, in WMP, and it filled all stated requirements. Haven’t seen it yet under stage lights, but--sorry, Ludwig Fans--the regular WMP of this era is nothing stellar.

But that’s not the problem. The fatal flaw on this was the Millennium throw off. What a wonderful strainer with a horrible design flaw. I realize this has been litigated here at length, so I won’t dwell on it other than the mechanism started to come apart almost immediately. I don’t fault the seller at all. It looked like he or maybe Ludwig put in some blue Loctite, but, Lord, regardless, those poor little screws have only about two and a half threads of purchase. I bet the vibration of rim shots alone would back them out so that it would inevitably fall apart. One was nearly out.

Anyone who has had a throw malfunction at a gig will have made a vow to never allow that to repeat. So even though I added another round of Loctite, I got a new P88AC.

The drum came with a factory-correct Weathermaster Heavy. The previous owner mentioned he’d hardly played the drum and the head was proof. I almost didn’t change it, but I wanted a Remo Reverse Black Dot as I intend to use this for rock covers. I really like how that head has distinct playing divisions—the center for pork chop & potato backbeat, and then if you move outward from the center the complexion of sound totally changes to much more open sizzle. The drum seems loud to me, more volume as in filling more sonic space, maybe not just volume in decibel metric way.

I am wondering about other people’s experience with this drum, and what heads, wires you like.

If you got this far reading, and want a Millennium throw off, I’ll send it to you for free, but it may take a while as I’m not standing in line in any crowded San Francisco post office any time soon.

The Barton Drum Bag with its hot pink fuzzy interior makes for an absolutely pornographic combination.


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Nice drum! I don't think I've seen those long lugs before, not on a 6.5" anyway.
 

hsosdrum

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Like NobleCooleyNut, I also have a BB with a P-86 that has performed flawlessly since 2013. In fact, I had never heard of this problem with the nuts coming loose so I just retrieved my BB from its case and checked the P-86: all four screws are still factory tight; I couldn't budge them with an allen wrench.

Congrats on your new snare! Unlike you, I love Ludwig's current WMP wrap. I'd been waiting since the 1950s for them to stop using that "Sky White Pearl" that they used to call WMP. (Only took 'em a half-century.) ;)
 

rsq911

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Sweet snare!
I have been lucky with the P86, I have about a dozen of them, no issues! Knock on wood.
Miss the P87 classic throw and super sensitive, my two favorites hands down.
 

Elvis

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I remember a guy showing me his 14x8 Keplinger cast iron snare drum.
It featured the P-70 throwoff and I could hold my hand a couple of inches above the batter head, snap my fingers and the snares would rattle.
... :thumbup:
 


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