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gretsch 20/12/14 for hard rock??

Whitten

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“Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it.” [Chinese Proverb]
Yeah, in case you haven't noticed I do do it.
It's all about levels. No one notices or cares about being true to a genre in a cafe or restaurant.
Of course a small (jazz style) kit is fine when playing for fun, in a relaxed setting.
If I was being paid to play in a rock cover band, or 'the real thing' I would opt for standard rock type drums, heads and tunings.
 
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Whitten

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something i just learned: superstition by stevie wonder was recorded on a 12/13/14/20 drum kit. neat!
Sure, a lot has changed since the 60's and early 70's.
Bass drums were much smaller sounding and not in your face. In a way John Bonham changed that, but mainly the widespread use of drum machines in the 80's.
 

jptrickster

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Which is presumably why anyone playing rock from Vinnie C to Simon Phillips to John Bonham to Stewart Copeland are NOT using a 20, 12 & 14 configuration???
That's been a long standing joke Chris sorry it went over yer head pal. A lot of internet discussions about gear have concluded that the Best drummers can make anything sound good.
 

mtarrani

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Sure, a lot has changed since the 60's and early 70's.
Bass drums were much smaller sounding and not in your face. In a way John Bonham changed that, but mainly the widespread use of drum machines in the 80's.
You did notice that the OP said he was going to use the kit to play 70s blues, right?

 

charlesm

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I take note we've not heard from the OP since the start of the thread.

Questions I have:

How large, in general, are the rooms we're talking here? Mic'ed? Or not?

Granted, I'm no big-time drummer, and not feathering my cap here, but I do have 27 years of steady pro gigging and recording experience under my belt, from big stages to tiny bars, across more genres than not...

If you are playing mic'ed up, USE ALMOST ANYTHING. 20-12-14 will work, without question.

If you are playing, mic'ed or not, in rooms medium-sized or smaller, 20-12-14 ABSOLUTELY will work.

Are you going to get *quite* the same fullness as you would from 22-13-16? Of course not. Is that *necessary* for the circumstances mentioned above? Absolutely not. 20-12-14 can sound HUGE, with the right tuning...and, more importantly, the right attitude.

The OP's original question was, Can it work? Of course it can work. And work well. I don't understand what people around here are thinking sometimes with certain doctrinaire attitudes.

If someone dropped you into an early-'70s hard-rock gig in an average room, with only 20-12-14 at your disposal, are you seriously going to say, "I'm sorry, I can't do this...these drums aren't big enough."?

We're not talking about what's an absolute ideal in that setting; we're asking whether or not it will work.
 

Tornado

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I take note we've not heard from the OP since the start of the thread.

Questions I have:

How large, in general, are the rooms we're talking here? Mic'ed? Or not?

Granted, I'm no big-time drummer, and not feathering my cap here, but I do have 27 years of steady pro gigging and recording experience under my belt, from big stages to tiny bars, across more genres than not...

If you are playing mic'ed up, USE ALMOST ANYTHING. 20-12-14 will work, without question.

If you are playing, mic'ed or not, in rooms medium-sized or smaller, 20-12-14 ABSOLUTELY will work.

Are you going to get *quite* the same fullness as you would from 22-13-16? Of course not. Is that *necessary* for the circumstances mentioned above? Absolutely not. 20-12-14 can sound HUGE, with the right tuning...and, more importantly, the right attitude.

The OP's original question was, Can it work? Of course it can work. And work well. I don't understand what people around here are thinking sometimes with certain doctrinaire attitudes.

If someone dropped you into an early-'70s hard-rock gig in an average room, with only 20-12-14 at your disposal, are you seriously going to say, "I'm sorry, I can't do this...these drums aren't big enough."?

We're not talking about what's an absolute ideal in that setting; we're asking whether or not it will work.

I haven't read any responses that said it wouldn't work. Most people that aren't thrilled with the idea are taking issue with "good enough". Which I'm actually fine with. Depending on the OP's situation, which you have correctly noted has been left unclear, "good enough" for this band might be the right choice if it's perfect for his other situations. OP is talking about dropping a lot of dough on a new kit, so I honestly just want him to happy.
 

rwm5

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@bon viesta you a fan of Stanton Moore’s drumming at all? You’ll see him using a Gretsch 12/14/16/20. The 14” FT holds its own. Check him out if you haven’t.

Edit @kip missed your post. Sorry!

I got through college majoring in jazz and playing many rock gigs with an Austin Fibes kit in 12/14/20. Just really changed up the front bass drum head depending on what I was playing as sound guys at that time in NYC didn’t understand not having a hole in the front head at rock venues.

Yes there will be those days you would prefer a 16” over the 14”. That’s why if you can only have one floor tom, I’d say make it a 15” FT.
 

Whitten

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You did notice that the OP said he was going to use the kit to play 70s blues, right?

Like John Bonham? The title was 'hard rock'. I'm not aware of any 'hard rock' that has been famously played on a small jazz style kit.
 

Whitten

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I haven't read any responses that said it wouldn't work. Most people that aren't thrilled with the idea are taking issue with "good enough". Which I'm actually fine with. Depending on the OP's situation, which you have correctly noted has been left unclear, "good enough" for this band might be the right choice if it's perfect for his other situations.

Exactly!
Good enough is fine in many circumstances. Like you can only afford one kit, like you play for fun only, like you play small bars and restaurants where large kits are not appropriate.
My point is more an overall analysis. Is it better to play in an idiomatic way with appropriate gear, or is it better to do 'whatever you want'. I'm allowed to have an opinion, and simply stated, I think it's usually better to play in the right style for the music and using basically the right kind of gear.
 

44Ronin

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Exactly!
Good enough is fine in many circumstances. Like you can only afford one kit, like you play for fun only, like you play small bars and restaurants where large kits are not appropriate.
My point is more an overall analysis. Is it better to play in an idiomatic way with appropriate gear, or is it better to do 'whatever you want'. I'm allowed to have an opinion, and simply stated, I think it's usually better to play in the right style for the music and using basically the right kind of gear.
Oh wow, its the express lane for looking like, sounding like and being like, everyone else. Joe Strummer said musical genres die when they paint themselves into a corner. Kind of the sheep mob mentality making current day producers sounding all alike.

Interesting drummers break "idiomatic" and "right style" all the time.

John Densmore played 12,14,20. Also had a sizzle ride. Imagine riders of the storm without that beautiful sizzle or the end without the jazz influence. Imagine if he took your advice.

Keith Moon most often played without hihats. Did he not play in the right style? How many drummers play without a hihat? Did he need those idiomatic hihats? (answer is hell no!)
 

mtarrani

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Like John Bonham? The title was 'hard rock'. I'm not aware of any 'hard rock' that has been famously played on a small jazz style kit.
Somehow I just don't associate Bonham with blues. Yeah, LZ played some blues-like stuff. The only Brit band, in my opinion, that came close to blues was the Stones. Not real blues, mind you, but they at least tried. But I digress ...
 

1988fxlr

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Oh wow, its the express lane for looking like, sounding like and being like, everyone else. Joe Strummer said musical genres die when they paint themselves into a corner. Kind of the sheep mob mentality making current day producers sounding all alike.

Interesting drummers break "idiomatic" and "right style" all the time.

John Densmore played 12,14,20. Also had a sizzle ride. Imagine riders of the storm without that beautiful sizzle or the end without the jazz influence. Imagine if he took your advice.

Keith Moon most often played without hihats. Did he not play in the right style? How many drummers play without a hihat? Did he need those idiomatic hihats? (answer is hell no!)
The Doors were great, but not exactly the first band to come to mind as hard rock
 

Jhouse86

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12-14-20 could definitely work for hard rock if needed. I'd opt for a 13-16-22 myself. The Low end would be noticeably lacking with the smaller sizes in a rock setting.
 

Houndog

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Somehow I just don't associate Bonham with blues. Yeah, LZ played some blues-like stuff. The only Brit band, in my opinion, that came close to blues was the Stones. Not real blues, mind you, but they at least tried. But I digress ...
They were extremely bluesy , I don’t know what Zeppelin you heard ….
 


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