Gretsch Round Badge Bop Kit

[marc3k]

Hi all

I saw this Reverb listing today:

https://reverb.com/item/67264413-grestch-1965-round-badge-bop-kit-in-green-sparkle

How "correct" do you think is this kit?
First thing I noticed is that there are no T-rods on the bass drum lugs.
The floor tom attachments look a bit strange (no reinforcement plate?)
There's no rail mount, I would have expected one if it was original.

I think I would only buy a kit like that from Maxwells', as they usually describe everything very well. I also remember that the price was much higher than for this listing.

Appreciate all inputs!

 

[K.O.]

Almost certainly a rewrapped and refurbed set. Rare sizes in a rare color in pristine shape, almost too good to be true. I'd expect a 6 ply bop set to have a rail mount (or at least holes from one) and diamond shaped leg mounts. The lugs on the small tom look a little "off" to me too, like the cheaper repros you can get, but it's hard to say that for certain from small photos on a phone.

Probably a great sounding set but I'd want to look it over very carefully before spending that kind of dough.

 

[rikkrebs]

Very cool kit. However, I agree it looks like a rewrap and because the bass rods are not original and not mentioned I would guess there are other unoriginal parts. Still a cool kit, but somethings not right.

 

[crash]

Agreed. Almost certainly a refurb. Kinda expensive for a redone set. I’d contact the seller with some questions.

 

[paulwells73]

Definitely a rewrap - that looks like modern green glass glitter. Also, it has the wrong claws and missing t-rods on the bass drum. The floor tom brackets are mid-50s style Gretsch, but not period correct for a bop kit.

Biggest issue for me is that it appears to have replacement lugs on the toms and maybe the bass drum, too. I’m almost positive that those are NOT Gretsch lugs - not one of them. The bottoms of the lugs are too pointy, and the tops are too bulbous - aftermarket lugs of some sort. Also, the lugs are not drilled in the correct place on the toms. This is most noticeable on the floor tom - the lugs are too close to the hoops.

So many issues with this kit, and this is without seeing the inside of the shells, bearing edges, etc. Hard pass.

 

[wflkurt]

Wow this could be a super cool set but if you are going to charge that kind of dough, you should at least use original parts for everything. They don't even mention any of that in the description. I would say re-wrap too as the seams don't seem to be in the right place. One complaint I have with vintage Gretsch is that they will put seems in the middle of a drum between the spacing of the lugs. These seams are hidden under the lugs like Ludwig is done (and I agree with).

There is a 14x18 Gretsch bass drum on CL Boston that has been there a while. It needs a ridiculous amount of work but it's still a Gretsch shell. I just don't see why someone would go so far to make such a cool looking set, then fail on a lot of the hardware details. It looks great otherwise.

Gretsch Vintage drum 18x14 - musical instruments - by owner - sale

Vintage Gretsch 18x14 drum in nice condition. Got this as an 18x14 floor tom shell only. Restored with a dark walnut stain and polyurethane and converted it to a bass drum. Installed some genuine...

boston.craigslist.org

 

[JazzDrumGuy]

I'd be all over that bass drum in Boston!

 

[wflkurt]

I'd be all over that bass drum in Boston!

The thought has crossed my mind. It's at least two hours away for me and my progressive jazz is champagne sparkle. I'm not sure anything modern would match that. This needs a lot of work too. I think this guy also has the 8x12 but it has triple flanged hoops on it and some other issues.

 

[K.O.]

Definitely a rewrap - that looks like modern green glass glitter. Also, it has the wrong claws and missing t-rods on the bass drum. The floor tom brackets are mid-50s style Gretsch, but not period correct for a bop kit.

Biggest issue for me is that it appears to have replacement lugs on the toms and maybe the bass drum, too. I’m almost positive that those are NOT Gretsch lugs - not one of them. The bottoms of the lugs are too pointy, and the tops are too bulbous - aftermarket lugs of some sort. Also, the lugs are not drilled in the correct place on the toms. This is most noticeable on the floor tom - the lugs are too close to the hoops.

So many issues with this kit, and this is without seeing the inside of the shells, bearing edges, etc. Hard pass.

If those lugs aren't "real" then that throws the whole works into questionable territory. I ordered one of those "Gretsch style" lugs a while back to see how they compared to the real ones. If I remember right the hole pattern is somewhat different. So if this set has those lugs it would have to have extra holes if it's an original Jasper shell. And if it doesn't then it's probably not an original shell.

Seller mentions 6 ply maple, which would be incorrect for Gretsch shells (maple and gum...mostly gum) but is a common misconception....unless.....

As I said I'd want go go over these with a fine toothed comb before buying them.

 

[crash]

Ya know, you've got me thinking. I've owned RB, multiple SS, Renown, and New Classic Gretsch's. They've all been good. But the Renowns were the easiest tuning, best sounding all around. I get that the RB sets have the snob appeal. the head fitment problms are real, tho. I've had to use a rubber mallet to get heads on and off. Cut counterhoops. The NC's were very good, too. But the Renowns and the '70's kits were the best sounding. And, you can pick up a Renown bop kit for around $1k. It would get you the same sound. Saw Stanton Moore trio. Hanging out pre gig,asked if he’d brought his RB. “No, playing my new ones. They sound great and didn’t have to worry about them”. Good enough for me! Wish I hadn't looked this up. Now, I'm thinking I need one! They were good enough a sound guy wanted to sample them for his studio. The last set he wanted was my Ayotte Customs.

 

[marc3k]

I have a broadkaster bop kit and it's really great! However, I'm always intruiged by the round badges - my dream would be to own a RB progressive jazz once. I really wonder how they would compare to the broadkasters.
I just remembered that Steve Maxwell sold like 2 RB bop kits not too long ago, and they were priced more than 10k if I remember correctly.

Thanks for all inputs!

 

[Rik_Everglade]

And parts from every decade! That set does look ultra cool with that green glitter. Maybe not $5000 cool, but definitely sweet.

 

[Framecode]

Wow this could be a super cool set but if you are going to charge that kind of dough, you should at least use original parts for everything. They don't even mention any of that in the description. I would say re-wrap too as the seams don't seem to be in the right place. One complaint I have with vintage Gretsch is that they will put seems in the middle of a drum between the spacing of the lugs. These seams are hidden under the lugs like Ludwig is done (and I agree with).

There is a 14x18 Gretsch bass drum on CL Boston that has been there a while. It needs a ridiculous amount of work but it's still a Gretsch shell. I just don't see why someone would go so far to make such a cool looking set, then fail on a lot of the hardware details. It looks great otherwise.

Gretsch Vintage drum 18x14 - musical instruments - by owner - sale

Vintage Gretsch 18x14 drum in nice condition. Got this as an 18x14 floor tom shell only. Restored with a dark walnut stain and polyurethane and converted it to a bass drum. Installed some genuine...

boston.craigslist.org

oh man why doesnt this happen in canada....

 

[mikesdrums]

It looks to me like a 16 x 18 floor tom cut down to 14-ish x 18. Each lug on the resonant side has what looks like a shadow of a washer surrounding a plugged hole from the original location of the lug. (Those are also the wrong washers, too, which is pretty minor compared to the other issues, but it speaks to the quality of the work.)

And the badge on the tom looks like it was painted to appear older, so it's probably a reproduction:

I’m almost positive that those are NOT Gretsch lugs - not one of them. The bottoms of the lugs are too pointy, and the tops are too bulbous - aftermarket lugs of some sort.

Good catch on the lugs. Those look like the "Gretsch-style" lugs from Drum Factory Direct. Here's a Gretsch lug compared to the DFD lug:

Gretsch:

"Gretsch-style":

 

[Mr. Fibes]

I wouldn't touch that kit for half the price. WAY too many red flags.

Check out his "1961" Gretsch 4160 - https://reverb.com/item/63256164-gretsch-cob-1961-chrome

He has either no knowledge of older Gretsch drums or he's deceitful.

 

[marc3k]

It looks to me like a 16 x 18 floor tom cut down to 14-ish x 18. Each lug on the resonant side has what looks like a shadow of a washer surrounding a plugged hole from the original location of the lug. (Those are also the wrong washers, too, which is pretty minor compared to the other issues, but it speaks to the quality of the work.)

View attachment 614353

And the badge on the tom looks like it was painted to appear older, so it's probably a reproduction:

View attachment 614355



Good catch on the lugs. Those look like the "Gretsch-style" lugs from Drum Factory Direct. Here's a Gretsch lug compared to the DFD lug:

Gretsch:
View attachment 614360

"Gretsch-style":
View attachment 614363

Great detective work!

 

[little rock]

Resembles Slingerland claws.

 

[ThomasL]

It looks to me like a 16 x 18 floor tom cut down to 14-ish x 18. Each lug on the resonant side has what looks like a shadow of a washer surrounding a plugged hole from the original location of the lug. (Those are also the wrong washers, too, which is pretty minor compared to the other issues, but it speaks to the quality of the work.)

View attachment 614353

I thought that Gretsch 16x18 floor toms always had 10 lugs per side? Anyway, lots of funny stuff going on with this kit.

 

[Ang]

He’s asking over $4k for a 20”, 13”, 16” used Brooklyn series kit, you could by two used kits for that price.

 

[Skeet6]

It looks to me like a 16 x 18 floor tom cut down to 14-ish x 18. Each lug on the resonant side has what looks like a shadow of a washer surrounding a plugged hole from the original location of the lug. (Those are also the wrong washers, too, which is pretty minor compared to the other issues, but it speaks to the quality of the work.)

View attachment 614353

Those look like modern Gretsch screws and washers.

Mike B