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Guitar Player Tells Drummer

pwc1141

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I am our jazz trio leader only in the sense that I get the gigs, do the promos and arrange who plays then the lead guitarist for the day will be the leader in all other things. I have found that to be the most workable method.
 

Tornado

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EQUAL Members ? What do you think my last post says ? Duh

Peter, you know sometimes you really overreact in negative ways when people are just trying to help you.

Here's what I've learned about playing in bands. If you're a good band member, you're likely to put more into it (emotionally, at least) than you get out of it. If you're the guy who provides the practice space and all the amenities on your own dime, you have a right to feel entitled to some respect, but you also have to understand your generosity probably won't be repaid. It's just part of being the kind of person who does good things...it never goes unpunished. But still, you do it because that's who you are, so take some pride in that.

I think you should take a little more ownership of the whole thing. Like, if you're providing the practice space, looks like a PA, and even the dang beer, you need to make it clear that this is YOUR BAND. But if this is your band, you should be the primary gig booker. Get something booked. There's no better motivator for your band members to get on your side and prepared than a gig you booked.
 

dtk

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so hard to find the right people...and for them to have some talent.
I'm in a band where I am very much a sideman...I don't like it...its not a 'band'.... but finding a band is tough
 

Drdrumdude3009

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so hard to find the right people...and for them to have some talent.
I'm in a band where I am very much a sideman...I don't like it...its not a 'band'.... but finding a band is tough

I was in a “band” where I was very much a sideman, but the band leader expected shared monetary contributions to things like recordings, etc. I eventually saw myself out as I felt like nothing more than an unpaid session musician.
 

Tornado

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I was in a “band” where I was very much a sideman, but the band leader expected shared monetary contributions to things like recordings, etc. I eventually saw myself out as I felt like nothing more than an unpaid session musician.
287761449_984454942212308_5480785577941322067_n.jpeg
 

Tubwompus

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This brings a couple thoughts to mind..

Were you fellas playing covers or were you writing?
If it was covers, how and why are type of fills, for example, even entering their minds? I’ve only been in that situation in cover bands with non-drummers twice in half a century. (I always learned the fills just about note for note, just because it was fun getting into another drummer’s head and putting his style into my mental toolbox for use in other stuff if I wanted or needed). So I asked him to show me what he meant.
“Oh, I don’t know anything about playing drums.”
I told him to remember that. No more issue.
Different, however, if you’re playing a song with the writer of said song, of course. His baby, his call. Offer up anything you want but also know that it may or may not fit what they’re hearing for it.

I’ve also learned that there are few things that arrogant-type non-drummers
hate more than…
A.) when the drummer points out that they’re playing a wrong chord or wrong extensions. And to make things worse,…
B.) when the drummer not only tells them the correct chord and/or the actual extensions, but then has to use their guitar or keyboard to SHOW THEM HOW TO PLAY IT.

-note- musicians who are mature individuals have no problem with this.
They get that nobody hears everything all the time. I’ve had stuff pointed out to me that had gotten past me through the course of things. I always appreciated it. The arrogant ones will bristle with annoyance. This is a sign that they have ego or validation issues that have nothing to do with playing a single note of music……..yay. In fact, I’ve known guitar players who literally resented that a drummer knows guitar, harmony, theory, and might own better guitars and amps than they. It’s like they think it’s forbidden stuff for drummers. Again, validation or ego issues.
Zappa put it best...
“Shut up and play your guitar.”
 
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Drdrumdude3009

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This brings a couple thoughts to mind..

Were you fellas playing covers or were you writing?
If it was covers, how and why are type of fills, for example, even entering their minds? I’ve only been in that situation in a cover band with a non-drummer twice in half a century. (I always learned the fills just about note for note, just because it was fun getting into another drummer’s head and putting his style into my mental toolbox for use in other stuff if I wanted). So I asked him to show me what he meant.
“Oh, I don’t know anything about playing drums.”
I told him to remember that. No more issue.
Different, however, if you’re playing a song with the writer of said song, of course. His baby, his call. Offer up anything you want but also know that it may or may not fit what they’re hearing for it.

I’ve also learned that there few things that arrogant-type non-drummers
hate more than…
A.) when the drummer points out that they’re playing a wrong chord or wrong extensions. And to make things worse,…
B.) when the drummer not only tells them the actual extensions, but then has to use their guitar to SHOW THEM HOW TO PLAY IT.

-note-musicians who are mature individuals have no problem with this.
They get that nobody hears everything all the time. The arrogant ones bristle with annoyance. This is a sign that they have ego or validation issues that have nothing to do with playing a single note of music. Yay.

Preaching to the choir here!
 

poot

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I am our jazz trio leader only in the sense that I get the gigs, do the promos and arrange who plays then the lead guitarist for the day will be the leader in all other things. I have found that to be the most workable method.
Well stated. As rhythm section members, our job is to support the soloists.
 

petereather

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I told each joining member what type of band . Private Partys Weddings and such . So everybody knew what I wanted , But they slowly changed it to more hard rock constant long lead solos super loud . They wanted me to mic my drums in the practice room . Text me with new songs to learn , music that had nothing to do with a variety band . My wife and I stopped at a local fund raiser party this past Sunday . I watched 2 bands 1 Polka 3 members they played polka and rock and role . sounded good . people loved them . Main act was 6 peice variety band it was raining lightly but the people danced and had a good time . My point is the drection we were going I dont think people would have hung around . I own the trailer the sound system mics etc and the lead guitar player was already telling me how much we would each make . And my share was not going to be more Thats was just the first red flag . I could go on but I think you get it
 
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Tornado

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I told each joining member what type of band . Private Partys Weddings and such . So everybody knew what I wanted , But they slowly changed it to more hard rock constant long lead solos super loud . They wanted me to mic my drums in the practice room . Text me with new songs to learn , music that had nothing to do with a variety band . My wife and I stopped at a local fund raiser party this past Sunday . I watched 2 bands 1 Polka 3 members they played polka and rock and role . sounded good . people loved them . Main act was 6 peice variety band it was raining lightly but the people danced and had a good time . My point is the drection we were going I dont think people would have hung around . I own the trailer the sound system mics etc and the lead guitar player was already telling me how much we would each make . And my share was not going to be more Thats was just the first red flag . I could go on but I think you get it

Yep, this is YOUR band. Anyone who isn't on board can take a hike.
 

loach71

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Hey Guys ; Sad just broke up band had been putting together for many months . 2 of my guitar players stated taking over my band / songs / direction / telling what they wanted the drums to sound changing my fills telling me this is how I hear it telling my base player same thing having me oust one of the original guitar players be cause they made it hard for him to understand what they wanted , they were better , He lost the fun as I did . Then I heard lead guitar player talking the other player into this direction . Remember I built a studio for the band payed for electricity heat air conditioning beer water ice !!!!!!~ . Sad ! Now I have to start over ,
Hey Guys ; Sad just broke up band had been putting together for many months . 2 of my guitar players stated taking over my band / songs / direction / telling what they wanted the drums to sound changing my fills telling me this is how I hear it telling my base player same thing having me oust one of the original guitar players be cause they made it hard for him to understand what they wanted , they were better , He lost the fun as I did . Then I heard lead guitar player talking the other player into this direction . Remember I built a studio for the band payed for electricity heat air conditioning beer water ice !!!!!!~ . Sad ! Now I have to start over ,
They deserve a cymbal stand to the face. Build a new band, better musicians, same material. Vigorously promote the new band. Take the old band's gigs.
 

Pat A Flafla

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I told each joining member what type of band . Private Partys Weddings and such . So everybody knew what I wanted , But they slowly changed it to more hard rock constant long lead solos super loud . They wanted me to mic my drums in the practice room . Text me with new songs to learn , music that had nothing to do with a variety band . My wife and I stopped at a local fund raiser party this past Sunday . I watched 2 bands 1 Polka 3 members they played polka and rock and role . sounded good . people loved them . Main act was 6 peice variety band it was raining lightly but the people danced and had a good time . My point is the drection we were going I dont think people would have hung around . I own the trailer the sound system mics etc and the lead guitar player was already telling me how much we would each make . And my share was not going to be more Thats was just the first red flag . I could go on but I think you get it
Sounds like you need side men and not "band mates." They're out there, looking for wedding band gigs. You just have to make it attractive enough to get good reliable people.
 

Drdrumdude3009

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I told each joining member what type of band . Private Partys Weddings and such . So everybody knew what I wanted , But they slowly changed it to more hard rock constant long lead solos super loud . They wanted me to mic my drums in the practice room . Text me with new songs to learn , music that had nothing to do with a variety band . My wife and I stopped at a local fund raiser party this past Sunday . I watched 2 bands 1 Polka 3 members they played polka and rock and role . sounded good . people loved them . Main act was 6 peice variety band it was raining lightly but the people danced and had a good time . My point is the drection we were going I dont think people would have hung around . I own the trailer the sound system mics etc and the lead guitar player was already telling me how much we would each make . And my share was not going to be more Thats was just the first red flag . I could go on but I think you get it

I had a lead singer join a project and essentially ruin it because he was trying to run the show despite contributing nothing except for his “talent”. Gotta love those guys who want to try to run your show.
 

Tornado

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I had a lead singer join a project and essentially ruin it because he was trying to run the show despite contributing nothing except for his “talent”. Gotta love those guys who want to try to run your show.

The singer is the show though. There is very little you can do to get around that fact. In any band situation that has a vocalist, the vocalist is going to have an outsized influence on what goes on in the band because they are sticking themselves out as the front and focus. If they aren't at their best, nothing else the band does matters.

Here's the thing. @Pat A Flafla is right on the money here. Side men are what's required here. There needs to be an established order AND an established flow of money (paid gigs lined up, maybe even paid rehearsals) to really set it in place. Basically, you're looking for professionals who won't bother with you unless they're getting paid by you. Otherwise, it's just a vanity project for everyone involved. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I love a good vanity project, but it's a rare thing when they line up just right.
 

Drdrumdude3009

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The singer is the show though. There is very little you can do to get around that fact. In any band situation that has a vocalist, the vocalist is going to have an outsized influence on what goes on in the band because they are sticking themselves out as the front and focus. If they aren't at their best, nothing else the band does matters.

Here's the thing. @Pat A Flafla is right on the money here. Side men are what's required here. There needs to be an established order AND an established flow of money (paid gigs lined up, maybe even paid rehearsals) to really set it in place. Basically, you're looking for professionals who won't bother with you unless they're getting paid by you. Otherwise, it's just a vanity project for everyone involved. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I love a good vanity project, but it's a rare thing when they line up just right.

You’re not wrong about the singer being the show. In this case, however, it was a song writer’s project (who was incidentally footing the bill for the recording project) and this singer was trying to add stuff, even trying to replace me. He was not cool, and the songwriter nearly lost control of the project! It was a grade A cluster truck!
 


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