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Guitar Player Tells Drummer

petereather

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They were telling me how to play songs I did not want to play . finally I started to say no to a song and down hill from there . The base player was not putting effort in either . Then I called off practice and they picked up their gear and here we are . The point is they knew what they were picked up to do and once the 2 started hanging out is when it changed I wish I would of stoped it sooner . The lead player was good enough to be playing with aband but he said for 2 years he could not he said musicians in the area where ass 0 . They other guy when I talked to a fella who played with had no comment on him .
 

petereather

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Hey Guys , Well I picked up 2 new Band Mates . WOW no pressure we are all getting into singing and harmony we are playing old rock and some late 60s 70s country and classic Moody Blues . W do Ring of Fire and the rythym guitar player sings it and plays the trumpet . I think this is going to work hope to be ready for some Xmas partys also so few Polkas . My base player is Happy . Only issue is practice times work can be a pain , Well thats the up date .
 

JimmyM

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Hey Guys , Well I picked up 2 new Band Mates . WOW no pressure we are all getting into singing and harmony we are playing old rock and some late 60s 70s country and classic Moody Blues . W do Ring of Fire and the rythym guitar player sings it and plays the trumpet . I think this is going to work hope to be ready for some Xmas partys also so few Polkas . My base player is Happy . Only issue is practice times work can be a pain , Well thats the up date .
Bass.

;)

Seriously, that’s good news.
 

groovemastergreg

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As an Austin guitarist pal told me recently, there are too many guitarists out there to work with. A good rhythm section is a rarity. So you’ve got the foundation. Now find some guitarists who work and play well with others. They’re out there. Everybody has been through this.

Lol. 20 years ago, I got asked by a lead singer of a band I was working with if I was going to commit exclusively to them. I replied once they started working I’d talk to them about it. They were a good band, but the BL guitarist was more focused on romancing the lead singer than music. Lol. They gave me an ultimatum. I walked and the bassist came with me, cuz we had a good groove going on. They never made it out of the rehearsal hall. We’ve all had this happen in one way or another.
 

WesChilton

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Well, this discussion brings up all kinds of not so fun memories from my gigging days. I can see that nothing has changed.

Here's what I learned over the years:

Problem 1a: No one respects the drummer in a cover band. Especially guitarists.
Problem 1b: Other musicians don't consider drummers to be "real" musicians--so they do not want your input. (and I have a masters degree in composition and performance and play multiple instruments, so this one REALLY irritates me)​
Problem 2: Not hiring the right players for the type of gig and musical style. Don't hire someone to play a wedding gig just because they are a good player, make sure they at least like the music you want them to play and explain from the beginning what exactly the gig is. GET REFERENCES.
Problem 3: inter-band member romances. Thats a hard pass for me, I have been in and seen too many bands become nightmares because two band members are dating... and fighting on stage.​
Problem 4: Pressure to commit exclusively. Hell NO. I respect first come first served. If you have a paying date that I have said yes to, and later someone else asks me to play the same night, I will not bail on your previously agreed to gig. BUT YOU DON'T OWN ME or my gear. No way will I turn down other work if it comes up.​
Problem 5: Ego/Professionalism. Everyone has an ego, but if you agree to a gig, then you should put it aside and do the job as is appropriate. No showing off unless its called for. Some people don't have the level of maturity to serve the song and only want to shred in front of an audience.​


I also see a big difference between a "Band" and a "Sideman" gig. While they essentially have the same elements they are pretty different.
In a sideman gig the leader picks or writes the tunes and maybe even books the gigs, while the other musicians are hired by the leader to fill out the musical roles. Being a Sideman means you are paid to play whatever song the leader calls, and you take direction from them. That could be for one gig, a tour, or for 20 years.

To me a Band is meant to be more of a collaborative project. A (relatively) equal share of the musical input on the songwriting, production and goals of the band. And this is frequently original music, but it doesn't have to be.

I have always seen GB/Wedding/Cover bands as a sideman gig. Some treated me better than others, but in all instances there was a clear leader and most of the time pretty set expectations for my playing. I never felt a collaborative "band" vibe, and that's OK. In fact, one of the best things about a sideman gig, is that you can point anyone with a request or complaint at the leader and you don't have to deal with it! :)

There's also the angle of the musician looking for work... and that is to make damn sure you like the group you are joining and the music you will be playing. I know its tough to find paying work, but trust me, no amount of money is worth having to play music that kills your soul.

I made the mistake of joining a group that claimed to be a "club touring hard rock band" and was even interested in some of my original compositions. What the gig really was was a low-paying VFW hall/chain hotel wedding band with a bunch of guys 25-30 years older than me who hadn't gotten over never making it as a rock star. We played at the sketchiest dumps and only played the corniest cover crap in existence. And yeah, Brown Eyed Girl was on that list. Yuck!
 

petereather

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Drummers Rule Tom Petty drummer put the groove down on his early tracks Petty seam not to have a problem with that . He was hurt when he found out that he was planning on leaving , So Petty Songs the drummer helped in The Petty Sound . Let The Drummer Drum and the writer can write . DRUMMERS RULE
 

Drdrumdude3009

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Well, this discussion brings up all kinds of not so fun memories from my gigging days. I can see that nothing has changed.

Here's what I learned over the years:

Problem 1a: No one respects the drummer in a cover band. Especially guitarists.
Problem 1b: Other musicians don't consider drummers to be "real" musicians--so they do not want your input. (and I have a masters degree in composition and performance and play multiple instruments, so this one REALLY irritates me)​
Problem 2: Not hiring the right players for the type of gig and musical style. Don't hire someone to play a wedding gig just because they are a good player, make sure they at least like the music you want them to play and explain from the beginning what exactly the gig is. GET REFERENCES.
Problem 3: inter-band member romances. Thats a hard pass for me, I have been in and seen too many bands become nightmares because two band members are dating... and fighting on stage.​
Problem 4: Pressure to commit exclusively. Hell NO. I respect first come first served. If you have a paying date that I have said yes to, and later someone else asks me to play the same night, I will not bail on your previously agreed to gig. BUT YOU DON'T OWN ME or my gear. No way will I turn down other work if it comes up.​
Problem 5: Ego/Professionalism. Everyone has an ego, but if you agree to a gig, then you should put it aside and do the job as is appropriate. No showing off unless its called for. Some people don't have the level of maturity to serve the song and only want to shred in front of an audience.​


I also see a big difference between a "Band" and a "Sideman" gig. While they essentially have the same elements they are pretty different.
In a sideman gig the leader picks or writes the tunes and maybe even books the gigs, while the other musicians are hired by the leader to fill out the musical roles. Being a Sideman means you are paid to play whatever song the leader calls, and you take direction from them. That could be for one gig, a tour, or for 20 years.

To me a Band is meant to be more of a collaborative project. A (relatively) equal share of the musical input on the songwriting, production and goals of the band. And this is frequently original music, but it doesn't have to be.

I have always seen GB/Wedding/Cover bands as a sideman gig. Some treated me better than others, but in all instances there was a clear leader and most of the time pretty set expectations for my playing. I never felt a collaborative "band" vibe, and that's OK. In fact, one of the best things about a sideman gig, is that you can point anyone with a request or complaint at the leader and you don't have to deal with it! :)

There's also the angle of the musician looking for work... and that is to make damn sure you like the group you are joining and the music you will be playing. I know its tough to find paying work, but trust me, no amount of money is worth having to play music that kills your soul.

I made the mistake of joining a group that claimed to be a "club touring hard rock band" and was even interested in some of my original compositions. What the gig really was was a low-paying VFW hall/chain hotel wedding band with a bunch of guys 25-30 years older than me who hadn't gotten over never making it as a rock star. We played at the sketchiest dumps and only played the corniest cover crap in existence. And yeah, Brown Eyed Girl was on that list. Yuck!

I was asked “how do you feel about playing casinos?”; getting paid was like playing a casino game :(
 

groovemastergreg

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This is exactly why I only make my own music with my best of friends anymore. And they’re all amazing…personally and musically. To me, that’s what it’s all about.

Maybe that’s not realistic for everyone.

Maybe I’m just lucky.
Me too. Fortunately, been playing a long time and got a lot of musical friends! I’m done gigging at 62.
 

Tornado

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Well, this discussion brings up all kinds of not so fun memories from my gigging days. I can see that nothing has changed.

Here's what I learned over the years:

Problem 1a: No one respects the drummer in a cover band. Especially guitarists.​
Problem 1b: Other musicians don't consider drummers to be "real" musicians--so they do not want your input. (and I have a masters degree in composition and performance and play multiple instruments, so this one REALLY irritates me)​
Problem 2: Not hiring the right players for the type of gig and musical style. Don't hire someone to play a wedding gig just because they are a good player, make sure they at least like the music you want them to play and explain from the beginning what exactly the gig is. GET REFERENCES.​
Problem 3: inter-band member romances. Thats a hard pass for me, I have been in and seen too many bands become nightmares because two band members are dating... and fighting on stage.​
Problem 4: Pressure to commit exclusively. Hell NO. I respect first come first served. If you have a paying date that I have said yes to, and later someone else asks me to play the same night, I will not bail on your previously agreed to gig. BUT YOU DON'T OWN ME or my gear. No way will I turn down other work if it comes up.​
Problem 5: Ego/Professionalism. Everyone has an ego, but if you agree to a gig, then you should put it aside and do the job as is appropriate. No showing off unless its called for. Some people don't have the level of maturity to serve the song and only want to shred in front of an audience.​


I also see a big difference between a "Band" and a "Sideman" gig. While they essentially have the same elements they are pretty different.
In a sideman gig the leader picks or writes the tunes and maybe even books the gigs, while the other musicians are hired by the leader to fill out the musical roles. Being a Sideman means you are paid to play whatever song the leader calls, and you take direction from them. That could be for one gig, a tour, or for 20 years.

To me a Band is meant to be more of a collaborative project. A (relatively) equal share of the musical input on the songwriting, production and goals of the band. And this is frequently original music, but it doesn't have to be.

I have always seen GB/Wedding/Cover bands as a sideman gig. Some treated me better than others, but in all instances there was a clear leader and most of the time pretty set expectations for my playing. I never felt a collaborative "band" vibe, and that's OK. In fact, one of the best things about a sideman gig, is that you can point anyone with a request or complaint at the leader and you don't have to deal with it! :)

There's also the angle of the musician looking for work... and that is to make damn sure you like the group you are joining and the music you will be playing. I know its tough to find paying work, but trust me, no amount of money is worth having to play music that kills your soul.

I made the mistake of joining a group that claimed to be a "club touring hard rock band" and was even interested in some of my original compositions. What the gig really was was a low-paying VFW hall/chain hotel wedding band with a bunch of guys 25-30 years older than me who hadn't gotten over never making it as a rock star. We played at the sketchiest dumps and only played the corniest cover crap in existence. And yeah, Brown Eyed Girl was on that list. Yuck!

I always treat myself as a sideman. No expectation, no disappointments. Want to go in a different direction from me? Great! I like doing different stuff anyway.
 

petereather

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Me too. Fortunately, been playing a long time and got a lot of musical friends! I’m done gigging at 62.
I am 68 still working around the house building garages and fences and what not Knees feel like crap back hurt until I bought a good thrown with a back rest . Dont spend as much time practicing keep my hands safe try not to hit them with a hammer on an on . Just want to Play
 

Pibroch

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I am 68 still working around the house building garages and fences and what not Knees feel like crap back hurt until I bought a good thrown with a back rest . Dont spend as much time practicing keep my hands safe try not to hit them with a hammer on an on . Just want to Play
At 68 you're still very young. (Our rhythm guitarist resumed gigging at 75. He's by far our best musician - was formerly in a support band opening for Van Morrison in Europe.)
 

Hypercaffium

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Remember I built a studio for the band payed for electricity heat air conditioning beer water ice !!!!!!
I'm not gonna say this is the main reason why they did what they did, because I can't possibly know that and it would stupid to take parts like this, but I'm pretty sure it must be one of the reasons, at least.
Usually people confuse being good with being weak and sooner or later somebody will try to exploit the "good guy" and then do as much damage as possible, just because they can and it's fun (for them).
And I'm sorry to tell you this, but usually the other members of the band follow the so-called new "leader(s)" and don't care about the good guy anymore, until they do but it's too late. A**holes are usually more appealing to people, in my experience. And I'm not sorry for them if they choose the wrong person.
 


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