Heavy ride + low-pitched??

charlesm

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Dave Collingwood has also posted some pretty awesome heavier, low-pitched rides in the past over on Cymbalholic, if you wanted to go the boutique route.
I would love to join Cymbalholic, actually, but every time I attempt to register, a message comes up saying that registration is closed. How does one register there?
 

dogmanaut

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I would love to join Cymbalholic, actually, but every time I attempt to register, a message comes up saying that registration is closed. How does one register there?
Huh. That’s weird. I registered years ago, but I don’t remember any issues.

Dave Collingwood also sells directly through his website, I think — collingwoodcymbals.com — although it looks like he’s only got one up for sale right now.
 

BennyK

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Interesting replies. Thanks, all.

In the course of looking for some specific cymbal sounds recently, I've become very interested in the subject of pitch vs. depth.

I started to realize that what I was looking for was not only lower pitch but greater depth. And it seems like, in many cases, a cymbal needs to have some weight on it before a sense of undertone depth begins to emerge.

In listening to many samples of prototypical dark and thin 22s--say, in the range of 2000-2400g--the overtone pitch is low, yes, but sometimes there is not much real bottom. Some thin cymbals just sound like all airiness without meatiness.

However, when 22s start to go above 2500g, given the right hammering and other factors, of course, it seems like some of them give off the sense of actually being lower and deeper in pitch than thinner cymbals.

I suppose this is why many "deep ride" models are actually fairly heavy cymbals.

The old adage of thinner=lower pitch, in terms of *apparent* pitch, is seemingly not always accurate. There are other subtle factors in play.

A smaller bell on a large heavy cymbal is what I'd be looking for . The HH Sabian Heavy had the magic 22" bell/ circumference/ weight ratio .
 

charlesm

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A smaller bell on a large heavy cymbal is what I'd be looking for . The HH Sabian Heavy had the magic 22" bell/ circumference/ weight ratio .
I gravitate more toward larger bells with a low pitch and dry tone.
 

Buffalo_drummer

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I would love to join Cymbalholic, actually, but every time I attempt to register, a message comes up saying that registration is closed. How does one register there?
Everytime I tried to register there I get a message saying "Registration has been disabled" or something that effect.
 

Johnny D

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The A. Zildjian Deep Ride was a heavy cymbal, but designed to have a low pitch i.e. "K" sounding. There are probably a few of them out there in circulation. A pretty unique cymbal.
 

JDA

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22" or 20" Istanbul Turk (not even the 'jazz' variation
probably (judging by a 19" I have) 22" Antique Bosphorus.
 

charlesm

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22" K Dark Medium (if you can handle/like the rest of it) 3013g
Funny you mentioned that. I had one a bunch of years ago that never quite thrilled me. It was on the heavier side as I recall. The overtones were just too high-pitched and whiney.

However, I went to the CT Drum Show a few weeks back and found a seller who had two of them. Both of them were really nice examples, but the lighter of the two, especially, was very sweet.

I was really in the market for the right EAK (found none), but the seller made me a can't-refuse offer and it came home with me.

It's definitely my favorite K Dark Medium that I've ever heard in person. It's 2960g and is low and dark, and the complexity is clean rather than discordant. Opens up extremely easily. Exceptional crashability. Great, clear stick definition.

The seller said he had grabbed both of them over time for being among the better ones he'd heard. I agree.

Taking it on a gig tonight in a nice room and looking forward to seeing what it does.
 

johnjssmith

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Pitch is also affected by lathing and hammering.
I have a 20" Paiste Innovations ride weighting about 2500g that has a mid-high pitched ping but a pretty low pitched wash - my Tongxiang 20" ride weights about 1890g IIRC, and the tail doesn't sound any lower than that of the Inn.
There's an audio demo I posted in the "for sale" section if you're curious about hearing it.
 

219Dave

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Hey guys. I am just getting into home recording, and looking for a heavier 21-22 ride with a dark tone. Good stick definition, not too much wash but some complexity. If that makes sense. Listening to lots of samples. What do you guys think of 22 Istanbul Agop traditional heavy ride? Also considering Sabian 22 hhx legacy heavy, and 21 raw bell dry ride. I’m usually a zildjian guy, but in this category Sabian seems to have more options. Oh, also saw some sabian heavier prototypes on drum center of portsmouth site.

Playing classic rock and blues. Crashability not a factor. Like a nice bell but will sacrifice it for that holy grail rock sound in my head. Volume not a huge factor, as all for recording and not playing out.

Thanks!
 

f.stahlenius

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I second the 22" Antique Bosphorus, or perhaps a 22" Agop Idris Muhammad that's on the lighter side - can have a nice, dark ping (unlathed bottom).
 

D. B. Cooper

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Yes it's possible. If looked at from a side view- a level/flat- profile (from bridge (where cup meets body) to edge)..is level. That will keep the pitch down. However weight will still play a factor but less . Same with a Light cymbal- (20" or so) may be low in weight but if looked at from the side- a profile with a large curve- bridge to edge- will Raise the pitch regardless of low weight.

I've a 2877g old K 22 NS that is dark and smoky;
and (on other hand) a 1956g 20" (light) that is "bowed" sounds hi pitched.

You ultimately "hear" the weight but over and undertones can be affected attenuated by profile.
Sometimes profile (bend) can be so acute - it can - rid a low weight ride cymbal entirely - of it's lows..
~
I've heard/played some big heavy Sabian (HH like an early Chester Thomson) that was heavy, flat profile, captured the low.
early K Con Medium - 22"- that's 3.
a Stagg 22" years back was - heavy but dark- that's 4

Yeah, but there are plenty examples of heavy, low pitched cymbals that are more umbrella shaped. Like the Deep Ride.
 

219Dave

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Ptrick- thanks for your answer, and the video.

I’ve also been checking out clips of k heavy ride in 20 and 22 (rarer). What does the group think of those, as compared to the Istanbul Agop traditional heavy ride? The K heavy is a lot easier to find used on reverb.

Also, someone just mentioned the Istanbul Agop Idris Muhammed ride. That looks good, but I think it is pretty close to my K custom medium-hammered, unlathed bottom, sound, weight.
 

Ptrick

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Ptrick- thanks for your answer, and the video.

I’ve also been checking out clips of k heavy ride in 20 and 22 (rarer). What does the group think of those, as compared to the Istanbul Agop traditional heavy ride? The K heavy is a lot easier to find used on reverb.

Also, someone just mentioned the Istanbul Agop Idris Muhammed ride. That looks good, but I think it is pretty close to my K custom medium-hammered, unlathed bottom, sound, weight.
The k heavy rides are nice, especially the 22 model. It will be a simpler sound than the agop, probably a better bell. Less overall sounds, but nice and clear and on the darker spectrum.

I also own an Idris Agop, and it was my main ride for 5 years. It’s dryer than my Traditional heavy (due to the unlathed bottom), and is definitely dark for a heavy ride. Good bigger bell. It’s not quite as musical a sound to my ears and doesn’t project as well as the trad heavy.

I had a K custom medium 22 for years, and it was brighter and livelier than the Idris Agop, even though they share similar designs. It was a bit more hollow sounding (less fullness) than the Traditional Heavy.
 


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