Hello! I am a time traveler from 1960, and I am trying to get home

CaptainCrunch

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It's an extremely complicated story, but the details are unimportant (I was smoking a "jazz cigarette" I purchased from one of those "Bebop Musicians" everybody warned me about at the time of the incident). What really matters is, I need a set of what your version of Earth calls "Old K's" to return to my own era (we just called them "K's"). But that company no longer exists! I know their products can still be found, but here's the other problem: I am actually literally allergic to spending money. It causes me a terrible rash every dollar I spend.

So what line of current-production is closest in, I dunno, 'vibe'?

For reasons that are even more complicated to explain, in my era I only learned about Paiste and 50's Avedis. Turkish cymbals are completely out of my wheelhouse.
Even even MORE complicated, on my journey, I powered my timecraft with a set of reissue Giant Beats (time travel is really hard to explain, but they always take me to Madison Square Garden, July 29th, 1973), but they just aren't different enough from the vintage 602's to replace them. That is why I hope this new set could possibly return me to my era of shrinking car fins and sexual repression and really terrible haircuts for guys.

Thanks!
 

hsosdrum

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I'd start with Zildjian's Kerope series.

P.S. I lived through your era too, and believe me, you're way better off sticking around this era. (Except for the pandemic, and the climate change, and the overpopulation, and the... on second thought, can you take me with you? I'll bring my own cymbals... Please???)
 

Matched Gripper

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It's an extremely complicated story, but the details are unimportant (I was smoking a "jazz cigarette" I purchased from one of those "Bebop Musicians" everybody warned me about at the time of the incident). What really matters is, I need a set of what your version of Earth calls "Old K's" to return to my own era (we just called them "K's"). But that company no longer exists! I know their products can still be found, but here's the other problem: I am actually literally allergic to spending money. It causes me a terrible rash every dollar I spend.

So what line of current-production is closest in, I dunno, 'vibe'?

For reasons that are even more complicated to explain, in my era I only learned about Paiste and 50's Avedis. Turkish cymbals are completely out of my wheelhouse.
Even even MORE complicated, on my journey, I powered my timecraft with a set of reissue Giant Beats (time travel is really hard to explain, but they always take me to Madison Square Garden, July 29th, 1973), but they just aren't different enough from the vintage 602's to replace them. That is why I hope this new set could possibly return me to my era of shrinking car fins and sexual repression and really terrible haircuts for guys.

Thanks!
Who slipped the psilocybin into your coffee?
 

tbird8450

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I fear you're in for a terrible rash no matter what, but as far as what's modern...

K Constantinoples - absolutely listen before you buy as they can vary wildly.
Keropes - I think these were explicitly made to capture the sound of "good old Ks". I'm not sure they fully succeeded but they are nice cymbals either way.
I have a 20" Bosphorus Traditional Paperthin - definitely has a bit of a wild old K thing going on. Not an easy cymbal to master, but that's part of the charm.
I also have a 22" Istanbul Epoch. While it doesn't really sound quite like an old K, it has an exotic vintage vibe that I've found to be pretty unique in modern cymbals.
 

JDA

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Bosphorus not Istanbul there's a distinction.
Bosphorus will get 'you there' quicker
Istanbul more a creeper a lingerer that sometimes tastes funny and doesn't ever quite get "you there" ever. Sometimes all is left is a headache,
Bosphorus is like 'sweet leaf' every time after awhile you don't even hear them you just feel them like

far out, man,
signed, T. Chong (yes I still play the drums)

ps I'm looking for a Lid for my high hat if you know of any
and for two Lids I'll throw in a ride cymbal

pps if you want the best gummies for cymbal stands hit me up 1st
- Tommy
 
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CaptainCrunch

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You followed this?
Oh, yeah. Speaking my language. I remember when Cymbalholic still had the pic gallery.

I just wanted a more interesting way to ask a pretty boring question. Like I said, Turkish stuff isn't anything I've given much thought to, and I have about 2 grand worth of Giant Beats I should either use or lose. I have tons of 602's/SC's and 50's A's, so the clean-ish-to-medium end of the spectrum is well-covered. I'm surprised modern Zildjians are recommended this highly - not that I think Big Z doesn't know how to make cymbals, I'd just think the actual Turkish stuff would be top of the list.

I do want actual hand-hammered, but between just Bosphorus, Mehmet, and Agop, I'm seeing over 60 different lines. That's dizzying. And checking out the great cymbalsonly.com, Agop is now even more proud of their stuff than Paiste and I didn't even know that was possible. Is an Agop 30th Anniversary 24" $276 better than a Bosphorus 20th Anniversary 24"? Maybe?
 

tbird8450

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I agree with JDA that the Istanbul stuff (while they have a bunch that I like and there are a select few that I *really* like), most don't scream old K to me.

Others here are much more attuned to old K sounds than I am, so I'm not an authority, but to me the Keropes probably come consistently the closest to the "better" old Ks that I've heard. You are a bit limited though in terms of sound as they are actually one of Zildjian's most consistent lines, particularly amongst jazzy cymbals. They're still machine-hammered though as far as I know (Zildjian calls them handcrafted - but that's vague enough to get by I suppose).
 

lossforgain

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I do want actual hand-hammered, but between just Bosphorus, Mehmet, and Agop, I'm seeing over 60 different lines. That's dizzying. And checking out the great cymbalsonly.com, Agop is now even more proud of their stuff than Paiste and I didn't even know that was possible. Is an Agop 30th Anniversary 24" $276 better than a Bosphorus 20th Anniversary 24"? Maybe?
I am way into Turkish stuff now, although my stash is about 50/50 Turkish and North American. So, I will say that I avoid Agop's higher end stuff because I don't want to pay the premium and enjoy the sounds I am getting from Mehmet and Bosphorus -- but mostly Bosphorus. I have probably tried 2 dozen of them over the past year, and every cymbal had something to love. I often buy the stuff that's available at a markdown on Amazon, and return the stuff I don't love. Easy to try things with no commitment. My favorite lines of theirs are the New Orleans, Master, Master Vintage, and Traditional (in that order), but occasionally something else will surprise me. I like Mehmet's take on Turk cymbals better than Bosphorus's take in general, but haven't kept any of my Mehmets yet.
 

hsosdrum

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I agree with JDA that the Istanbul stuff (while they have a bunch that I like and there are a select few that I *really* like), most don't scream old K to me.

Others here are much more attuned to old K sounds than I am, so I'm not an authority, but to me the Keropes probably come consistently the closest to the "better" old Ks that I've heard. You are a bit limited though in terms of sound as they are actually one of Zildjian's most consistent lines, particularly amongst jazzy cymbals. They're still machine-hammered though as far as I know (Zildjian calls them handcrafted - but that's vague enough to get by I suppose).
The Kerope bells are individually created by (sledge)hammering, one-at-a-time. No two alike.
 

zenstat

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The Kerope bells are individually created by (sledge)hammering, one-at-a-time...
Not quite. The Kerope bells are pressed in with a relatively low bell die so they start off the same. They are then further hammered probably by somebody holding them freehand under a hammering machine. It is possible that the hammerer really does use a hammer in their hand, but that is not what was said. The bells were being hammered by Paul Francis (who provided this info) and one other person. I don't know who is doing them now.

The Kerope bells are individually created by (sledge)hammering, one-at-a-time. No two alike.
The production method does mean that the Kerope bells will have more variation from one bell to another than most Avedis Zildjian bells. Whether or not the variation is similar to modern Turkish made cymbals or Istanbul K Zildjian cymbals is something which has never been measured. Or if it has, news hasn't reached me.

And welcome back Captain.
 
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JDA

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but between just Bosphorus, Mehmet, and Agop, I'm seeing over 60 different lines
you pick The Line as if you would - if old K still existed- (ie no freaking choice/ choice bad/ solid good)

traditional lathed- both sides, no "extremist" hammering, lighter weight, flatter profile.
Full diameter. Bosphorus has the easiest choices- readily available. in lines Traditional and Masters (and old Hammer) lines. Simple easy done. Checkout. Do not pass go Do not collect Go to jail card free.
You can add some side dish Turk or Antique.

buh core line is plain old K traditional....... and that looks like Traditional and Masters line.
Never played a Master rather plenty of Trad. Trad of the two is the bargain.

I know I was a Used Car dealer. I don't didn't won't play retail for nothing. For awhile last year low I mean low mileage Bosphorus were every where. Now they're getting a little tougher to find mint nearly new. Have to look and Know what to look for. Like
 
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JDA

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Here's another deal. Nobody makes an old K. Zildjian. Captures the sound sometimes close but not the way of manufacture, (that would be Avedis)
The Turkish companies (some) capture the manufacture to a T but care not (obviously) to sound like an old Zildjian.
This to me is where Bosphorus wins the modern Turkish manufacturer race/prize whatever-gets the nod.

they don't attempt to sound like old Ks (but they manufacture similarity leaves all of that ( feel sustain- just how they sit- element of old K 'in')
Istanbul I think... thought they could sell "just like the old Cymbals" .. They're back- Mel was so goosed.."The future is ancient"..but never even in Pre split days, rarely, to today were they as sweet and simple and harmonious, balanced as actual old Ks are. So they failed - they did not turn old K into distant ancient memory. (hardly. old Ks went up post-deceasure with the advent of Istanbul 84-86 ->

Bosphorus I think, says we'll make what we think sounds pretty. We'll make it exactly the old way. (oh we got a laser did ya hear? for the insignia.) But it will be different. Hence they escape that direct comparsion that every company that tries (Avedis K etc) old k capture and fails.

So if you want loud and power to knock it outta the park and have big bucks to spend go thru new AKs- about 20 of them till you find 5 or 6 you can live with. Big dough.
Or just go straight to the New Bosphorus..they're a breeze. to pick to match to play, Got your weight. Got your series. Got your diameter. Checkout.
One thing about Bosphorus weights written under the cup. They're a guide. Never had one exact. 20-40-50 or more grams. But didn't matter/. It was close. Turkish scale well maybe they're ancient


There other reasons and examples I could give but my time is limited to 14, 272 minutes per post. Thanks for hanging in.
 
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CaptainCrunch

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And welcome back Captain.
And I'm glad to see you here again, too. Personally, I am but a simple glitchy Russian adbot who just wants people to know how badly Sexy Russian Single Girls desperately need their credit card information. Losing you made the cymbal world smaller.
 


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