HELP: Ludwig Scarf Joint Question (1969)

abryantp

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Hope everyone is doing well! Calling the Ludwig experts on this one.

I have the opportunity to purchase a transitional Ludwig set date stamped 1969. The bass drum is a virgin bass drum (keystone badge 707xxx), rack tom (keystone 707xxx) and the floor tom has a blue olive badge(767xxx).

I have seen sets like this in the past with a mix match of badges that were produced right at the turn of the 60's and I think there is something pretty cool about them.

It is priced fairly and wrapped in a black wrap that shows some wear. I was curious about if you guys can make the call on original wrap or not. The gromets looks original to me.The question I have, is that the wrap doesn't go through the scarf joint. Was Ludwig still doing this in the late 60's? I've never owned a ludwig past the mid 60's.
 

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andlours

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Off the top of my head, Ludwig did stop doing the wrap in the scarf joint in the late 60s (68 or 69). It seems like the late 60s clear interior stuff lines up with when they stopped having the wrap in the scarf joint.
 

abryantp

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@andlours

That's what I was thinking too! Thank you!

Where would you guys peg value on an original mix badge Ludwig date stamped 1969 wrapped in jet black pearl/black cortex 22 (Virgin), 13, 16
 

K.O.

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The change seems to have occurred around 1968. Prior to that the wrap was glued to the plywood before it was bent into a shell which is why the wrap went into the seam. A couple of things seemed to happen concurrently with the change in production techniques (applying the wrap to already formed shells). Ludwig went to clear maple interiors on the Classic line drums and they introduced the Standard line of drums, which used the same 3 ply shell design but might have either a mahogany or maple inner ply like the classics had been before (Standards were given a uniform interior look, first by white Resocoat, then with Granitone paint).

The switch to clear interiors may have been intended to differentiate the Classics from the Standards. Standards used the same style shells as had been used for the Classic series through the earlier 1960s. Changing the interior look of their upmarket line may have been a marketing decision to insure there were obvious differences. Applying the wrap to already made shells would have given them more flexibility in production and the ability to use "Classic" shells to build Standard drums if the need arose.
 
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abryantp

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Any idea on value of a 1969 Ludwig wrapped in jet black pearl/black cortex 22 (Virgin), 13, 16 all original and immaculate condition. Keystone badges on bass and rack and a blue olive on the floor?

Going to be pulling the trigger today and want to be able to negotiate a bit if needed. They are priced at $1,100.
 

Tama CW

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I cannot address the "rarity" or desirability of black cortex and/or mixed badges with virgin kick drum during this transition period. But just 3 excellent Ludwig drums from that period seems pretty strongly priced at $1100. I'd be thinking more along the lines of $650-$950. Fwiw, 3 months ago I saw a mint, one owner and unfaded Ludwig silver sparkle 12,13,16,22 + Supra snare kit in my area at $1400....and it came with all original nice Ludwig hardware, vintage A Zildjians, and Ludwig leather cases. It lasted for 2 days. So the deals do show up. Seems to be a LOT of 3-4 piece Ludwig shell packs out there in the $900-$1800 range....and not selling.
 
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GeeDeeEmm

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In my area (central Arkansas), that kit would struggle hard to fetch $650. More likely it would bring something in the range of $400-500.

Earlier this year there was a seller on CL that had a 5-piece Ludwig Modular kit with cases priced at $500 with no takers. I don't know if he simply gave up or eventually took a lower offer, but that kit sat for a long time.

We are in a buyers market right now, with used drum prices falling nationwide. You'll have to be the final judge in whether you want to drop $1000+ for a three-piece kit. Personally, I wouldn't even consider it.

GeeDeeEmm
 

K.O.

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Those wouldn't be black cortex. The cortex finishes (similar to countertop laminate material) didn't come along until the early 70s and those were just woodgrain designs for several years before the solid colors were added. They would be either black wrap or black lacquer from that era although Black Panther (Tolex) came along at around that same time.
 

abryantp

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I passed on them, thank you for all the great advice everyone! There was definitely some mojo with a mix match badge set that was born together.
 

TheElectricCompany

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It's a good thing you passed on the kit. Those half-inch spurs would not be original to a late '60s/early '70s kit. The half-inch spurs did not come out until the late '70s. The close up of the 13 also shows some waves in the wrap to the right of the bottom lug. It could just be a trick of the light, but it looks to me like it's a very thin, very cheap non-Ludwig wrap. If you have more pictures I'd be interested in seeing them.
 


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