Help me identify this kit (Vintage Pre-Tama Star with Ludwig floor tom mounts??)

dan_plays_drums

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
44
Reaction score
28
Location
United States
A buddy of mine was clearing out his basement and generously named me the caretaker of this super cool vintage kit in pretty good condition. He says it's a 1967 pre-Tama Star. If true, it's unique because of the "rock sizes" - 22" kick, 12" rack, 16" floor. It sounds good and thuddy and I'm excited to coax more out of it with new heads and some TLC.

However, there are no indicators that it's a Star. No badge or serial that I've found yet. It has Ludwig floor tom mounts, but I don't believe the lugs are Ludwig. But nor do they have the offset lugs of a 1967 Star kit from what I can tell. I don't have a lot of knowledge of vintage stuff, so hoping someone out there can tell me what I'm dealing with here. My best guess is it's a 70s Star kit rather than a '67. Thoughts? I realize I'm missing a clear pic of the Ludwig floor tom mounts, I'll update later!

IMG_20200120_155753.jpg
IMG_20200120_155757.jpg
IMG_20200120_155807.jpg
 
Last edited:

dan_plays_drums

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
44
Reaction score
28
Location
United States
Also, vintage Star kits seem to all use a crossbar for mounting the rack toms, while this kick drum has a hole mount. Curious...
 

Kcmcc

Very well Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2016
Messages
615
Reaction score
261
Location
Richmond, Va
Those old Ludwig brackets end up on everything. Inlcluding vintage kits from even the other American makers. As floor tom mounts, bass drum cymbal mounts, small tom mounts. They were readily available and affordable I think. I've got one on my late 70s Gretsch bass drum that looks like it was probably for a buddy rich style splash cymbal (although it may have been for a ride if he was playing the drum backwards?) My previous Slingerland kit had them for floor tom leg mounts, and I think the CB700 beater floor tom I have lying around has ONE of them.
 

dan_plays_drums

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
44
Reaction score
28
Location
United States
Those old Ludwig brackets end up on everything. Inlcluding vintage kits from even the other American makers. As floor tom mounts, bass drum cymbal mounts, small tom mounts. They were readily available and affordable I think. I've got one on my late 70s Gretsch bass drum that looks like it was probably for a buddy rich style splash cymbal (although it may have been for a ride if he was playing the drum backwards?) My previous Slingerland kit had them for floor tom leg mounts, and I think the CB700 beater floor tom I have lying around has ONE of them.
Great info, thanks! I figured that might be the case. That probably rules it out as some kind of weird Ludwig kit then.
 

tris66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
483
Reaction score
116
Location
3rd world
Not a Star guy. I would have guessed 70s pre Tama, too.
I have one of those bass mounts in the for sale section here. Unquestionably MIJ.... it is stamped JAPAN on it. 1 1/4 " tube. Lugs say 70s.
A quick search in the non USA forum on VDF will get you some pics. I am guessing 70s Star and that is original hardware.
 

dan_plays_drums

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
44
Reaction score
28
Location
United States
Not a Star guy. I would have guessed 70s pre Tama, too.
I have one of those bass mounts in the for sale section here. Unquestionably MIJ.... it is stamped JAPAN on it. 1 1/4 " tube. Lugs say 70s.
A quick search in the non USA forum on VDF will get you some pics. I am guessing 70s Star and that is original hardware.
Thanks! I will definitely check out your listing in the for sale section.

The lugs still seem slightly different than any of the ones listed in your link, but they are very similar to the lug type 6370 but with more of a point at the end. What I find weird is that seemingly ALL badges are gone from the kit. There's no oval Star badge to be found, which is a bummer. I'll go over it with a fine tooth comb later and see if I missed anything.
 

Kcmcc

Very well Known Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2016
Messages
615
Reaction score
261
Location
Richmond, Va
It might help the folks in the know to have an interior shot? Which way does the grain go?
 

TheElectricCompany

Very well Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
869
Reaction score
298
Location
Houston, TX
Not a Star guy. I would have guessed 70s pre Tama, too.
I have one of those bass mounts in the for sale section here. Unquestionably MIJ.... it is stamped JAPAN on it. 1 1/4 " tube. Lugs say 70s.
A quick search in the non USA forum on VDF will get you some pics. I am guessing 70s Star and that is original hardware.
These are my thoughts as well. That bass mount screams MIJ. I might be off, but I also associate that particular white marine pearl pattern with modern iterations. This discoloration suggests it's certainly not new, but maybe it's a re-wrap from sometime this century. That could explain where the badges went.
 
Last edited:

dan_plays_drums

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
44
Reaction score
28
Location
United States
Response from Ralf, the owner of www.star-drums.de!

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your email and the photos. This is not a Star made kit.

As you stated it: ‚... the lugs don’t quite match ..‘ is exactly the point. There is no ‚similarity‘ or ‚almost equal‘ possible with the lugs. They have to match exactly (well – that’s not a matter of fact at Star only – it’s also the point at Pearl’s or Yamaha’s etc.).

Sorry that I have to route you further on to this forum:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23

where they might perhaps be of help for you.

Cheers,
Ralf

NB: nive classy finish!

The mystery continues!
 

tris66

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Messages
483
Reaction score
116
Location
3rd world
Great that Ralph responded so quickly. There are so many vintage drum nuts that are great people. There is long thread somewhere in the DFO archives that has id info and pics of MIJ lugs, mounts, etc. I have it book marked on a laptop, so I can't post it right now. The info IS somewhere on this site... and definitely in the heads of people here.
 

dan_plays_drums

Active Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
44
Reaction score
28
Location
United States
Based on the lugs, the fact that Ralf says it's NOT a Star, and some images I found, I'm thinking this is a re-wrapped Hoshino Professional that is missing the badges. But I'll check some of these other sites/experts and report back!
 

EvEnStEvEn

~Lounge Lizard~
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
17,986
Reaction score
2,683
Location
Oklur Homer
Response from Ralf, the owner of www.star-drums.de!
Wow, that site is a good resource, thanks for posting the link!
I just emailed Ralf about the mysterious chrome LOTUS kit I gigged on from '88 to '98
They sounded wonderful, heavy multi-layered wood shells with rerings. Never seen another!
 

Attachments

Kenwood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
69
Reaction score
9
Location
Warwick R.I.
Hello Dan Awesome drum kit I love WMP kits no matter the maker just such a classic look
That aside what I see is Pearl made battleship lugs
The bass drum receiver is more than likely a very close knock-off of a Tama receiver
I have run into a few Taiwan made kits that were a hybrid of sorts using copies of a combination of makers on one drum kit. that receiver being one such copy.

The wrap looks original to me and more resembles Star than it does Pearl but the Lugs on all the drums are Pearl battleship style lugs .I have not seen copies on them before so I will assume they are indeed Pearl made
as to the floor tom leg brackets the drum most likely had Pearl made brackets originally based on the lugs
Those castings are not very strong and either strip out at the adjustment point or break at the fastening points so it makes sense that they were upgraded with Ludwig brackets as they are of course stronger and better quality while being close in terms of hole spacing You have a beautiful modified MIJ kit love it as it is and enjoy
 
Last edited:


Top