Here's a unique 22"

TPC

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Great. Seems extraordinarily stiff for such a thin cymbal. Maybe an umbrella profile? That probably kept it from wobbling itself into a crack many moons ago.
 

cymbal.wiki

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Profile doesn't look too umbrella to me based on a grab of the video

Screen Shot 2021-04-22 at 8.09.57 AM.png


Use of the term "1954 stamp" is of course out of date. Even Drumaholic finally came around in March 2019. @ChicagoDave was an imporant early contributor to demonstrating that the "1954 stamp" is what we call the 1960s short stamp. The recent discussion is here


I need to go through the video a few more times to see what the hammering details suggest, and I was hoping for a decent image of the top of the bell to see the lathing on that. So far I haven't found enough.

Context for that weight from my data:

The 3 lightest 22" A Zildjian cymbals in my database are the Swish model at 1666g (L1), 1760g (T4), 1818g (70). Next comes a few regular shape cymbals: 1850g (T), 1875g (60tall), 1908g (T2).

And context for that weight from the reconstructed weight class categories shows it is an Ex Thin which are now documented right back to the 1930s.

Screen Shot 2021-04-22 at 8.29.10 AM.png


The table below is a tabulation which is out of date now since I've got more data.

Screen Shot 2021-04-22 at 8.29.56 AM.png
 

TPC

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Profile doesn't look too umbrella to me based on a grab of the video

View attachment 496127
Ah yes - I didn't see that. I'd then say it's relatively high tension that keeps it all in check.

I have a 24" at 25xx that should be all wobbly and very, very low pitched, but stays eminently playable due to higher than average tension.
 

cymbal.wiki

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More from the video. 1960s short stamp

Screen Shot 2021-04-22 at 8.54.53 AM.png


Rings of Saturn lathing style from the 1950s


Screen Shot 2021-04-22 at 8.53.52 AM.png


Special Cup looking flattish on top, and mixed lathing. Not super fine, not as large as the tonal grooves we see on the bow. Looks like a 50s bell not a 60s bell. @Cliff DeArment has more detail about the bell lathing changes in the 40s and 50s. I've got lots of data but haven't analyzed it yet. I can say that the Special Cup is standard issue on 22" cymbals.

Screen Shot 2021-04-22 at 8.55.17 AM.png
 
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cymbal.wiki

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Here is a trip down memory lane to show how we have been making steady progress in this area for over 5 years. You can see how far we have come.


That thread also includes a 2307g cymbal which shows much more top hammering than the Manabu one, although that could be down to differences in the quality of lighting, etc.

22-2307-top.jpg


22-2307-bot.jpg


22-2307-stamp.jpg


22-2307-stamp2.png
 

cymbal.wiki

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A free hypertext Cymbal Book brought up to date for the 21st Century.

that?
I thought an online version including videos and sound files would be something people would like. The Paiste portal is still in process but that gives an example of a useful organization with things like models and when they were made. You don't approve?
 

jb111

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I thought an online version including videos and sound files would be something people would like. The Paiste portal is still in process but that gives an example of a useful organization with things like models and when they were made. You don't approve?
Great resource.
 

Cliff DeArment

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My take..... Not a 54. Typical early 60's.

1: Bell lathing too consistent, too long.
2: Small clutch. Should show large clutch 2"(ish). That can often be an easy giveaway.
3: Quincy Drop Hammer. (also hammered measure by measure with only 4 consistent bands)
4: Not hammered near the edge. It's typical for SSA/B, and on, showing 1 to 1 1/2"(ish) open with no hammering.
5: Game over. Thanks for playing.

Can't verify hole, but looks like 1/2.

(Your mileage may vary.)
 

GrandfatherOdin

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Profile doesn't look too umbrella to me based on a grab of the video

View attachment 496127

Use of the term "1954 stamp" is of course out of date. Even Drumaholic finally came around in March 2019. @ChicagoDave was an imporant early contributor to demonstrating that the "1954 stamp" is what we call the 1960s short stamp. The recent discussion is here


I need to go through the video a few more times to see what the hammering details suggest, and I was hoping for a decent image of the top of the bell to see the lathing on that. So far I haven't found enough.

Context for that weight from my data:

The 3 lightest 22" A Zildjian cymbals in my database are the Swish model at 1666g (L1), 1760g (T4), 1818g (70). Next comes a few regular shape cymbals: 1850g (T), 1875g (60tall), 1908g (T2).

And context for that weight from the reconstructed weight class categories shows it is an Ex Thin which are now documented right back to the 1930s.

View attachment 496132

The table below is a tabulation which is out of date now since I've got more data.

View attachment 496134
I think we all appreciate your devotion to cymbal knowledge and history. Thx for doing so much leg work
 

Tama CW

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What is the end game?
Very simple. Historical accuracy.

The "truth."

What was the end game in doing statistical data on Ludwig, Gretsch, Rogers, and Slingerland serial numbers over the years? What was that end game? Did it change the sound of the drums any?
Why did those researchers bother?
.
 

Pink69

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I find the information helpful when buying a cymbal that I cannot play first. The different info gives me a good idea of what the cymbal will sound like. I think it is as helpful as knowing what the weight of the cymbal is. I thank all for the attention to detail and research given to this endeavor.
 

Cliff DeArment

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Cymbals are the hardest of all. Sometimes a stamp doesn't tell us enough. In order to do this well, each of us almost have to pick one short era (at least I do.) I just work on AZ 50's. (Don't get me started on Zilco's! Geez.) And here we are, Avedis saying they sit in the vault somewhere between 2 to 7 years before it's "seasoned". Then they stamp it.... thanks... that helps. (no it doesn't!!) Part is for history. Another is "How much is it worth?" Or, what will it sound like? There's a stamp. Good luck. Some things will only be somewhat a guess, but hopefully narrow it down slowly. It's working pretty well so far, passing it to Zenstat to combined it all. But, what I say the most?.... "What the hell is THAT?!" :blink:
 


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