I'd agree with Chinese origin. Once upon a time I started a checklist for identifying cymbals with no ink stamps or pressed in die stamps. It began with:
List of companies/countries which don't always put pressed in trademark die stamps on their cymbals regularly, so once any ink has gone you are on your own. Yes the Italians sometimes use trademark die stamps but there are plenty which don't.
Italy (UFIP, Tosco)
List of companies/countries which almost always (as in > 99.9%) put pressed in die stamps on their cymbals.
Zildjian (US, Canada, Turkey)
Myriad Turkish Brands (I can't even keep up with them all)
Brazil (not so sure about Brazil but we don't see cymbals from there much...)
Miscellaneous European cymbals of yesteryear
British cymbals of yesteryear
I'm happy to receive examples of cymbals which don't follow these rules. Some day (always some day) this will all get written up in the wiki but it is a low priority project compared to some others I have on the go.
Here is an example of lathing on an Italian cymbal which doesn't have a pressed in trademark die. In this case we could identify it as Italian because it still had ink. Features noted are the blue arrows which point to places where there was a pause in the lathing pass which leaves a ring. There is a bit of that in the mystery hats, but the presence of that doesn't mean Italian on its own as this can occur on cymbals from other regions. The red oval shows a slight hard to see surface effect which is lathe chatter. I can see that in your hats as well. But once again that can be found in cymbals from other regions.
View attachment 488037
Another global test for origin is to measure the diameter accurately. That picks up differences between countries which target metric sizes and those which target inches. In this situation where we are distinguishing Chinese from Italian that doesn't assist because they both tend to be slightly undersized due to metric diameter targets...something these two countries of origin share with Turkey.
*** hmmm, my image disappeared when I added the info about diameter. I'll try again***
Measured across the bottom? Or across the top and including the bell? Measuring including the bell adds a little bit and muddies the waters.Great info, as always. Thanks.
As far as size, they measure 13.25", if that helps at all. I can take more pics, just tell me of what and how to frame them. I've taken a couple of the bell(s), but I don't know what would help most.
Measured across the bottom? Or across the top and including the bell? Measuring including the bell adds a little bit and muddies the waters.
And a slight addendum to my original checklist to keep things up with the play. More recently manufacturers have moved to laser stamping not pressing in bits of metal. I've not seen that technology roll out to Turkey (Agop, Bosphorus and possibly others) as well as Zildjian and Paiste and I think China. I haven't noticed what's up with Sabian and Meinl today.
Here's the thing. A nominal 13" cymbal is tricky because 330 mm is 12.99 inches so we're talking a very subtle undersizing. It is easier with some other diameters like nominal 20". I've got a table showing the variation in different diameters and where there is size ink on the cymbal what the "official" target is. It varies by brand and production era. Not every manufacturer agrees on the conversion based on the ink.Apologies, that was across the top.
13" even across the bottom.