How computers ruined rock music

Mongrel

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I fear I am becoming a Beato Fanboy....

I just dig everything I've seen him do, including, and especially THIS video.

Just tears down the curtain and shows what most of us have known all along...

Maybe time to tell some people where to stick their metronomes.

Lol
 

DrumWhipper

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I fear I am becoming a Beato Fanboy....

I just dig everything I've seen him do, including, and especially THIS video.

Just tears down the curtain and shows what most of us have known all along...

Maybe time to tell some people where to stick their metronomes.

Lol
When he broke it all down and showed how it is done it was a real eye opener for me. Then when he showed the BPM for famous songs before they began doing this, it really showed exactly what is being done to music.
 

TrickRoll

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Making records has always been quite different than live performance. Even in the analog days there was 'cut and paste' going on, sometimes with whole sections of one take being spliced into another take. This alone introduced tempo [and other] variations.

Razor blades and splicing tape were used in all genres to fix things up.
 

BennyK

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Beads and mirrors, it was inevitable .

The most important product in the marketing food chain is the consumer . Preferably grain fed, free range , brain dead .
 
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Joe61

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Fascinating! You know I wounder how many people, musicians or other wise, think that a changing beat/tempo somehow means poor musical skills. I have tried to play to a click at practice and have never been able to maintain the beat. It frustrated me and I felt substandard. Not going to worry about that anymore. I guess we should ask our selves...just because we can sterilize music with technology, should we? Machine like precision seems to strip the soul from music.
Just my thoughts.

Joe
 

Mongrel

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I think of it this way....

Wear a heart monitor for a day....

Quantize THAT biatch....

Lol


Soylent Green really is made out of people....
 

EvEnStEvEn

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I agree with some of the points Rick makes in that clip but the video title is essentially click-bait since record producers had been employing tempo modification tricks like click tracks, quantization & the LinnDrum along with the above mentioned tape splicing cut & paste to manipulate beats on hit songs for a couple decades before the advent of Beat Detective and ProTools, so this didn't necessarily begin in the 90s, it simply became more widespread and prevalent by that time and now it's ubiquitous.
 

bongomania

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Agreed, he's not wrong about a conflict between "rock" and "commercial precision engineering", but that biz is NOT a result of 90's/00's software. The software just made it easier to do, and the commodity oriented music industry loves cost-cutting efficiencies and predictable products.
 

BennyK

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We have Pink Floyd and The Beatles to thank for this -

 

Ptrick

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I’ve participated in tape splicing back in the day. Where this is different is you can digitally manipulate every hit to make it exactly on the beat, negating the human feel of a groove. That to me is vastly different than taking a section and splicing it together.

The technology does have some good uses. An amazing drum take with a couple little flubs can be fixed relatively easily, which is easier for producers to do after the fact if the musician isn’t still physically present to punch in a section. It’s good for demo’s as well, you can build a song how you wish.

There’s a point where it gets ridiculous, and that’s what I think Rick is pointing out in the video.
 

Mongrel

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I’ve participated in tape splicing back in the day. Where this is different is you can digitally manipulate every hit to make it exactly on the beat, negating the human feel of a groove. That to me is vastly different than taking a section and splicing it together.

The technology does have some good uses. An amazing drum take with a couple little flubs can be fixed relatively easily, which is easier for producers to do after the fact if the musician isn’t still physically present to punch in a section. It’s good for demo’s as well, you can build a song how you wish.

There’s a point where it gets ridiculous, and that’s what I think Rick is pointing out in the video.
Thanks...saved me a lot of typing re: "this was being done 50 years ago..." Etc.

Ignoring the 800lb digital Gorilla in the room.
 

VintageUSA

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Making records has always been quite different than live performance. Even in the analog days there was 'cut and paste' going on, sometimes with whole sections of one take being spliced into another take. This alone introduced tempo [and other] variations.
Razor blades and splicing tape were used in all genres to fix things up.
Reminds me of an interview I saw with Bill Bruford where he described YES in the studio during the making of CLOSE TO THE EDGE.
They would record all these different sections and Offord would splice things together in various order to see what it might provide.
He said once the album was complete and they were preparing to get out on the supporting tour, they had to learn the songs the way they were finally on the album.
As we now know, before all that could happen, Bruford left the band and Alan White had to learn all the songs for the upcoming tour.
 

KevinD

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I agree with some of the points Rick makes in that clip but the video title is essentially click-bait since record producers had been employing tempo modification tricks like click tracks, quantization & the LinnDrum along with the above mentioned tape splicing cut & paste to manipulate beats on hit songs for a couple decades before the advent of Beat Detective and ProTools, so this didn't necessarily begin in the 90s, it simply became more widespread and prevalent by that time and now it's ubiquitous.
Agreed, that manipulation has gone on forever (a number of instances cited in this thread), he may have approached it differently by stating that the technology advances have made it cheaper, faster, and a lot easier to make these changes... Back when The Beatles, Floyd Steely Dan etc.. were doing it, those engineers were extremely skilled and innovative...now, just about anyone can make a "perfect" (by today's market standards) in their bedroom... And once "everyone" does that... those songs lose the human element and end up sounding just like everyone else's...
 

DrumWhipper

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My feelings are this, click tracks and programs such as he is using in the video can certainly be a good thing, but at the same time too much of anything can be harmful as well.
 

KevinD

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Agreed, that manipulation has gone on forever (a number of instances cited in this thread), he may have approached it differently by stating that the technology advances have made it cheaper, faster, and a lot easier to make these changes... Back when The Beatles, Floyd Steely Dan etc.. were doing it, those engineers were extremely skilled and innovative...now, just about anyone can make a "perfect" (by today's market standards) in their bedroom... And once "everyone" does that... those songs lose the human element and end up sounding just like everyone else's...
After I posted, and had my coffee I remembered an old (1979-80 perhaps?) MD interview with Craig Krampf where he spoke about Nick Gilder's "Hot Child in the City" where the engineer had to somehow go through every beat of the song (in post) to line up (or maybe he said " tighten up") the hits between the bass and his bass drum...
Does anyone happen to have that handy? I'm just curious if there is more (or less) to that than I remember since I was about 13 at the time.

Also remember reading various articles around the same time stating that many drummers who played on Steely Dan could not be sure if it was them on the final track, in some instances they would use a Marotta hi hat track and mix it with Keltner's bd and things like that. (i'm guessing this was in reference to "Aja.").
 

blueshadow

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Funny this comes up, was stuck in traffic this morning and turned my LiveBPM app on while listening to Classic Rock on XM. Was wondering when the change over to using a click in the studio happened. I noticed that songs on the Classic Vinyl Station had a wider range of bpm than on Classic Cassette or whatever that station is called. I know all the top 40 country is to a click I'll run LiveBPM over some of it and see if it still varies. I've never ran it to a Metronome to see how accurate it stays.
 

BennyK

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A old friend of mine has a label and recording is done is live off the floor . He walked away from a producers job at a world class studio in Toronto because,in his words, he was sick of polishing other people's turds .
 

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