How Different Should Your Left Side Ride Be?

shnootre

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I know I know this is super subjective, and it's all about what I want and what feels right etc. etc.

But I'm looking for YOUR opinion!

I have a 22" K Con Renaissance ride, which I love, and which I bought a few months after getting a great deal on a 20" K Kerope (the orig. version, not the medium). I am using the Kerope as a left side ride (first I've ever had). There definitely is a difference between the two - the K Con is trashier, with a much wider array of sounds available and a really pronounced bell. The Kerope is more buttery - the tone is gorgeous, though more limited. Although it's different, in terms of functionality I feel like it serves much the same purpose. On recordings, for regular ride patterns, I don't hear a huge change - other than spatial placement - when I switch from the K Con to the Kerope, and I'm wondering if I'm wasting real estate (and $ value!) by sticking with this setup. I'm not a pro player (tho am a professional musician - just not on drums) but I've been re-working up my chops over the last year with a predominant interest in jazz and secondary interest in funk. Other cymbals on my rig are a 17" K hybrid crash (which I love) and a stack of 16" Zildjian Oriental trash china and 9" Oriental trash splash (I can access each individually in this setup). I wouldn't really have room to add another cymbal, and I can't help wondering if that left side ride should be something more different and possibly more exotic - maybe something with a rivet? For now, I'm more likely to record (I have a good setup) than gig live.
 

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Mcjnic

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I play an array of stuff with several varied cymbal setups.
I like to keep my left side as a crash/ride. It’s similar to my ride texturally, but has its own distinct voice.
Oddly enough, I have a 20 Kerope I’m not playing due to not connecting with it. So ... I’m probably not the input you are seeking.
But that’s my take, anyway.
I really enjoy a 21 ride that crashes on my right and an 18 crash that rides on my left. Beyond that ... a few other cymbals for color.
Perhaps sticking an esoteric ride on your left will answer your question. Just check to see if it inspires ya.
 

james_c_marks

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Although my LSR is my FRR, it's my alternate ride none the less, right?

I believe they should be significantly different / a yin and yang kind of thing

Big differences on the band stand are less noticeable at a distance, so if they're too close then,,, no difference
 

JDA

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I thought sometimes, it depends on the weather...
There's 'external' reasons for taking one over the other- a China instead of an 18- a 20 instead of a 22-.. an 18 instead of a 16 instead of a 7" Atlas bell.
(it's) the room..the group..the style...

It's Fluid baby.
Don't sweat it or you'll get sweaty
and you know how that stinks.

Just remember " Formula's are for babies!" (yes yes.. I just made that up...)
 
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shnootre

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https://soundcloud.com/user-486124740%2Fride-comparison-8-11-19 Here's a little demo comparison I recorded. Other than hihat foot, the K Con (right) and the Kerope (left) are the only cymbals played.
There's definitely a difference - but I'm guessing on the bandstand it's gone, and even in recording - w other music added - I'm just not sure the Kerope reads as different and/or special enough.
Not trying to sweat it too much - but I don't have the budget to add anything unless something goes!
(and please don't judge the sloppy playing! :) )
 

Tracktuary

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Nice cymbals. I dig both of them.

Don't stress too much about how similar / different they are. They don't clash with one another, they both sound good on their own, and you like them both. That's good enough.

My recommendation would be to throw 2 rivets in the Kerope. That could give you just a bit more differentiation when you are a looking for a change in texture. I play similar setup and it fits: 22" Old K (2409g), 19" Kerope with 2 rivets (1592g), and 14" Old K hats (795/990g). Over time, the Kerope has gotten the most compliments from both players and those out front. The rivets have specifically been called out a couple of times, too.
 

shnootre

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Nice cymbals. I dig both of them.

Don't stress too much about how similar / different they are. They don't clash with one another, they both sound good on their own, and you like them both. That's good enough.

My recommendation would be to throw 2 rivets in the Kerope. That could give you just a bit more differentiation when you are a looking for a change in texture. I play similar setup and it fits: 22" Old K (2409g), 19" Kerope with 2 rivets (1592g), and 14" Old K hats (795/990g). Over time, the Kerope has gotten the most compliments from both players and those out front. The rivets have specifically been called out a couple of times, too.
I love this idea. If I absolutely don't trust myself to drill the rivets myself, how would I go about this? Something a local drum shop would do? It's just such a lovely cymbal I don't want to wreck it.
 

skelt101

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If you don't want to drill for rivets and permanently alter the cymbal, you could always try a chain or something similar to get a sizzle effect.
 

Tracktuary

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You can start with a chain to see if you like the effect before you take a drill to it. Note that the weight of the chain will dry the cymbal out a bit; rivets (and holes) have no effect on the actual cymbal sound from my experience.

Unless it's a reputable drum shop that definitely knows how to drill for rivets, it might be best to do it yourself. I've drilled a bunch of cymbals myself, and I am far from a handyman.

5/32" drill bit (make sure it's sharp and meant for metal)
Holes 1.25-1.50" inches from the edge
Holes at 10:30 and 1:30 (90 degrees apart) assuming playing spot is at 6:00
Drill from underneath the cymbal so that you aren't pushing against the curvature.
Drill into a block of wood (have top of cymbal pressed against the block)

Perhaps others on here can give more advice or tips on drilling technique.
 

shnootre

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You can start with a chain to see if you like the effect before you take a drill to it. Note that the weight of the chain will dry the cymbal out a bit; rivets (and holes) have no effect on the actual cymbal sound from my experience.

Unless it's a reputable drum shop that definitely knows how to drill for rivets, it might be best to do it yourself. I've drilled a bunch of cymbals myself, and I am far from a handyman.

5/32" drill bit (make sure it's sharp and meant for metal)
Holes 1.25-1.50" inches from the edge
Holes at 10:30 and 1:30 (90 degrees apart) assuming playing spot is at 6:00
Drill from underneath the cymbal so that you aren't pushing against the curvature.
Drill into a block of wood (have top of cymbal pressed against the block)

Perhaps others on here can give more advice or tips on drilling technique.
Cool - so, you're recommending only two rivet holes?
 

Seb77

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Nice cymbals! If they sound similar on recordings, are you missing something soundwise? A higher, or a lower sound? More wash/crashability , or more stick definition?

I'd choose ride cymbals for the context you use them in. Not as much as a set-up in the first place, but as single cymbals you use behind certain instruments. If you play with piano a lot, you might like something like a flat ride; if you play with brass instruments or strong saxophone, you might want to find something even lower in sound, such as a Swish/China ride.

Again, those cymbals sound very good already, no need to change anything here imo. I'd look into a different bass and tom sounds to go with them for jazz, though ;)
 

shnootre

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I'd look into a different bass and tom sounds to go with them for jazz, though ;)
Thanks Seb, good points all.
And yeah, know what you mean about the sound. It was a quick setup... usually for jazz I just use the overheads, kick and room mic. But my shock mount just died so I had no room mic and consequently used the close mics... not quite the right vibe! I've also been playing around w/ heads and currently have Evans EC2 clear heads on the toms. Not the jazziest things, but sound cool for funk and rock!
 

Old Drummer

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I'm going to agree with the suspicion of the OP that a K Con on the right and a Kerope on the left are redundant. Yes, the cymbals are different (and both are good) but imo their musical functions are so similar that one or the other is a waste of real estate.

I think a left side cymbal ought to be significantly different from the main cymbal. However, I admit that they're more difficult to choose than the main ride. I and probably others devote a lot of effort to choosing a main ride. But after I do that and am forced to choose a left side cymbal that's different, I'm in the position of having to choose a cymbal I don't like as much. It's real easy to dodge this challenge by choosing a left side cymbal I like almost as much as my main ride--only to end up with two cymbals that are so similar that there's not much point in setting up both. It takes real effort to choose a different left side cymbal.

Of course, if a drummer plays in only one genre, say jazz, choosing a very different left side cymbal may not be that important. If you're going to want a roughly similar cymbal sound all the time, having two cymbals in the same family may be fine (and help break up the monotony). There's also the crash issue. Usually drummers will want more crash potential on the left. Sometimes getting this sacrifices some ride sound, so the left side cymbal functions more as a crash/ride.

Then too, lots of drummers have lots of cymbals and just set different ones up according to their anticipated needs. This is another way to go.

But for me, having a left side cymbal different from my main ride is important for versatility--and I have to fight the temptation to put a cymbal on the left that's too similar to my main ride.
 

JazzDrumGuy

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L. side "should" be higher pitched....or not! Sounds like you need a rivet on one of them - I'd go with the left......I also need a 22 Ren! Got a bunch of 22 K Cons but no Ren....yet.....I also have a like new 22 Kerope........(hint, hint).....
 

Woody85

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I like cymbals that compliment each other but are not necessarily polar opposites. Some contrast is good, but I don't want to pair an old stamp K main with a Paiste Rude LSR.
 

AtlantaDrumGuy

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Get a 20 old A on the left. The A probably will have a higher pitch. If another K, get a smaller diameter or something thicker with higher pitch. Or be like Tony and forget the left side ride option ...and just use a crash.
 
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lrod1707

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I use a UFIP 21" Natural ride as my primary ride for a dry sound and occasionally switch out with a Mehmet 22" Ping ride when I want a different sound like playing hard rock. My secondary ride I have placed just above and left of my main ride (not on the left as you have yours). If find that having it there puts it in a more natural position for me. I can quickly switch between the primary & secondary with that setup. It's an 18" Soultone custom brilliant ride which has tons of wash so it's great for crashing as you ride. I think the sound thing is subjective and depends on what sound and use you need for both rides.
 

Old Drummer

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Get a 20 old A on the left. The A probably will have a higher pitch. If another K, get a smaller diameter or something thicker with higher pitch. Or be like Tony and forget the left side ride option ...and just use a crash.
I've got an old 18" A on the left and a 20" Agop on the right, so suspect I'm operating roughly according to your theory. I'm just not sure it's working. The A does have a higher pitch while being brighter--the contrast I wanted--but it's one loud cymbal (too loud to crash). It offers a contrasting ride sound (but not a great one) and a nice tap-crash, but I'm not convinced that it merits its real estate. I tried an 18" Paiste 2002 there and it was the same story. I've also put an 18" Kerope there and really liked it--except that it's not different enough from my Agop to merit its real estate.

Tony might be right, just forget the left side ride--but I'm trying and the old 18" A is better than nothing. However, I do have to set up a crash in the middle. Left side cymbals are a torment.
 

mikeylicious78

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Both cymbals' pitch and sound match very nicely and IMO make for a coherent sound wholistically. I'd say keep both of them and add a higher pitched crash or effects cymbal.
 


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