How do you value a cut down Trans Stamp crash?

Tama CW

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Received this one today and immediately noted the very heavy, dark, gong like quality to an otherwise 16" thin crash (1000 gm). Initially, I attributed it to the quirky nature of old trans stamps. But that monster 5.5-6.0" bell on this little crash seemed really strange. I have 3 other big bell cymbals, all 1960's A Zildjians in 18, 20, 22 sizes. I've never run into that size bell before on 18-21" Trans stamps of which I own several....none of those exceed 5.0". But here is a "16 inch" trans stamp with a huge 5.5-6.0" bell depending on how you measure it.

All of my 15 and 16" Zildjians have 4.0" bells, including 15" trans stamp hats. All my 18 and larger trans stamps are stamped 2" or more from the edge....generally near the center. This 16" trans stamp is die stamped within 1" of the edge. It also has quite a bit of tolerance being up to 1/8th inch out of round at some spots....far exceeding my other trans stamps at 1/16th inch. It doesn't help that the tonal grooves disappear at times near the edge and then come back. Still, the edges are fairly thin. The 16" big bell trans stamp fits like a glove inside my big bell 18, 20, and 22" cymbals. So overall I have little doubt this 16" big bell trans stamp used to be a larger size....probably an 18/20 inch "thin" that developed some circumferential cracks. It's a pretty cymbal "with no other issues." Too bad it doesn't sound more like a Zildjian from the 40's to 60's. I have two photos showing the very flat contours of the 16" trans stamp against the more bowed contours of my big bell 18".

Normally a light trans stamp crash would be a fairly pricey item. But once cut down I figure the entire trans stamp 'aura' is cut away with it. Now it has to stand on the merits of the sound alone. Probably would make a pretty decent bottom hat for a lightly matched 16" pair. Or maybe it's quirky sound can fit progressive rock, fusion, or some other genre. Jazzy it isn't. Doesn't even fit early classic rock. Might do metal rock ok. It's a "light" weight....but with a "heavy" sound. In fact my 1250 gm 16" A RIDE crashes more nicely than this 1000 gm 16" Trans stamp. I would value it at $65-$85....pretty much what any decent old 16" A Zildjian would go for....but not everyone would like the sound. What do you think?
 

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JDA

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"There's a guy "in Connecticut" that "specializes" in "cut down" symbols.
JP..something I forget his name wonder if it was one of his ; ) ha
 

Tama CW

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This cymbal wasn't being sold by an "artist" who cuts them down. This was found in an old house with other cymbals. So more than likely the work was done quite a few years ago, especially based on the even patina and edges. And the price wasn't that high, just not worth what I paid imo. I was hoping to fill that 16" slot in my trans stamp set. But this one won't do that. I'll keep looking. And this one will go to another owner down the road a bit. Maybe it gets some 16" hi hat usage first.

In any event curious as to how one values a cut down cymbal. For comparison I recently paid $65 for a horribly key holed (with a couple tiny bell cracks) Trans stamp 18" medium thin 1450 gm. That's a nice rivet - crash/ride even with the damage. I can use it...and can keep the damage from progressing. But this 16" I just can't use as a crash or ride with any of my A's. So in a sense worth no more than $65-$85 to me.
 
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JDA

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I didn't say Artist; does frequent old houses tho
 
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Tama CW

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Watch this cymbal and ask the same it ends at..
Interesting old K. That could be used as a bottom hat. Very heavy one too at +1600 gms. That's like a band cymbal. How the heck could someone have cracked that monsta'. I think my Trans Stamp is more useful - as it has no cracks as it is. That K could sell for anything from $50-$125 imo. I'll watch it though. Thanks.

That heavy "tone" of this cymbal just might be smoothed out as a hi hat bottom cymbal.
 
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JDA

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theoryme: that was cracked by b-ing banged against cymbal stand stem- like an earthquake- aftershock fissure shows up-somewhere elsewhere. or less likely- a straight edge drop to cement floor aftershock..)
 
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Tama CW

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Well, it's not all bad. I just tried this Monster Bell 16 Trans stamp paired up with a 16" hollow logo 1050 gm med thin crash as a hi hat pair. The smoother hollow logo on top. Pretty darn nice pairing - jazzy - airy - washy. Just like an old light pair of 50's or 60's 14" hats....more volume though. So they work there. Then flipped them around with the big bell on top. A bit more harshness, and more cut. But not gongy at all. And that monster bell sitting on top is a freak show. But the bell booms and is very close for accents. Reminds me of the Jupiter 2 on the launch pad....lol.

And then it hit me. HHX. This monster bell plays like a 17" Sabian HHXtreme crash I used to have....but really couldn't use that with A's. Very close in sound and weighting as HHX though not quite as fast. Cymbals can multi-task if you give them a chance.


IMG_20190705_184236.jpg
 
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Pounder

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I wouldn't be surprised if it used to be a 22 or even a 24" with the large bell size being what it is. I wouldn't pay more than $50 for it. Whatever it sounded like before it likely got cracked on the edges, it is no longer that cymbal, despite when the complete cymbal that it was, was made.
 

Tama CW

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I think it was either a very thin 20" or 22" ride/crash at one time. It fits equally well inside a big bell 18, 20 or 22" cymbal. And judging from where the stamp is now - it was probably at least 2" closer in originally....so 20" or 22". What's interesting is that even with several inches per side missing, the 16" remaining is still very thin and flexible. It it had been an 18" it was probably at 1200-1300 gm, if a 20" at 1500-1700, and if a 22" at 1800-2200 gm. So more than likely this cracked circumferentially due to being so thin. It if it helps any, this cymbal was "found" with some paper thin Zildjian 1st and 2nd stamps in generally nice condition. So that owner liked thin, old style cymbals.

The sound of the 16" now is so similar to the HHXtreme/HHXevolution type of crash-gongs, that I don't think I'll have a problem betting $65-$75 for it. It's a very light, yet very powerful cymbal. And I already know it works as a light to medium hi hat bottom. I'll find it a good home.

I have 4 other vintage cymbals with this same bell size. They are 18, 20, 21, 22"....all 60's stamp except the 21 which is 70's. This size bell was pretty available back then. I've always wondered why my 18 and 20 inch medium thin crashes were pretty potent for their weights. And it would appear the big bells and shoulder have something to do with that.
 

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